probably dumb newbie question

During the time I've been hanging out in aww, I've learned enough to
realize that my site needs a complete makeover. I've been slow to do
this because I maintain this site as a public service (i.e., I don't
make money off it, other than Amazon affiliate payments covering the
hosting costs) and I have health problems that leave me little energy
for anything other than the essentials.

I know basic HTML - enough that I've been able to use my free copy of
FP (and free is the only reason I use it) without too much damage
because I know how to clean up the code and don't use any of the
extensions - basically use it for the WSIWYG.

The one FP capability I've used it letting it make borders for me,
since that way I can change the top and bottom borders on all my pages
at once.

I was thinking of switching to using a template page for the layout,
using tables. The problem is, I want to be able to easily change the
top, side and bottom of all the pages at once. Is this something I'd
do using CSS? I currently use very basic CSS just for formatting the
headers, etc. If not, how do I do this? It's a large enough site
that it's really not feasible to do by page-by-page.

TIA

--

MGW

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 16:59:08 +0200, Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl>
scrawled:

>> I'm having trouble understanding exactly how divs work.
>
>It's nothing more than a container.

OK

>Try this bit of code to see the effect of a div:
<snip>

If I want to have the same content in that div on each page of my
site, is there a way to make a file with that content and just use an
include-type statement on each page?

And how do I use a div side-by-side with other content?

>> And I'm not a very visual person (never going into page design, that's
>> fer sher!) I'm not computer illiterate, but I learned to program back
>> in the Fortran-on-punch-card days,
>
>Sounds like I wasn't born then yet ;-)

Yeah, I'm ancient (at least that's what my teenage son thinks). I met
my ex- in the computer room when we were both students using the same
mainframe. I like to say we met via computer dating ;-P

I really appreciate all the help!

--

MGW

MGW wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 16:59:08 +0200, Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl>
> scrawled:
>
>>> I'm having trouble understanding exactly how divs work.
>>
>>It's nothing more than a container.
>
> OK
>
>>Try this bit of code to see the effect of a div:
> <snip>
>
> If I want to have the same content in that div on each page of my
> site, is there a way to make a file with that content and just use an
> include-type statement on each page?

I use PHP for that.
My pages really start with a PHP include for header and navigation,
then show content, and then end with an include for the footer bit.
Comes out as plain HTML, but it's much easier for me to change the
look of the entire site with only one file to change.

> And how do I use a div side-by-side with other content?

<div id="navigation">
<ul>
<li><a href="link1">link 1</a></li>
<li>.....
....
</ul>
</div>
<div id="content">
<p>
content....
bla
bla
</p>
</div>

in CSS:
#navigation{
float:left;
width:10em;
}
#content{
margin-left:10em;
}

>>> And I'm not a very visual person (never going into page design, that's
>>> fer sher!) I'm not computer illiterate, but I learned to program back
>>> in the Fortran-on-punch-card days,
>>
>>Sounds like I wasn't born then yet ;-)
>
> Yeah, I'm ancient (at least that's what my teenage son thinks).

Quick calculation: you could be my age (I could have had my kids 10
years earlier too) ;-)

> I met
> my ex- in the computer room when we were both students using the same
> mainframe. I like to say we met via computer dating ;-P

very early form of it ;-)

> I really appreciate all the help!

np

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 2029 +0200, Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl>
scrawled:

>I use PHP for that.

Is there a way to do it without PHP? Or should I just bite the
bullet?

>> And how do I use a div side-by-side with other content?
>
><div id="navigation">
><ul>
><li><a href="link1">link 1</a></li>
><li>.....
>...
></ul>
></div>
><div id="content">
><p>
>content....
>bla
>bla
></p>
></div>
>
>in CSS:
>#navigation{
> float:left;
> width:10em;
>}
>#content{
> margin-left:10em;
>}

OK, I think I'm starting to understand this better.

>>>> And I'm not a very visual person (never going into page design, that's
>>>> fer sher!) I'm not computer illiterate, but I learned to program back
>>>> in the Fortran-on-punch-card days,
>>>
>>>Sounds like I wasn't born then yet ;-)
>>
>> Yeah, I'm ancient (at least that's what my teenage son thinks).
>
>Quick calculation: you could be my age (I could have had my kids 10
>years earlier too) ;-)

Physiologically, I could have had my son 10-15 years earlier - when my
mother was my age, I was already a college grad. I've reached the age
where it is consoling to write my age in hexadecimal ;-P


--

MGW

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 2111 +0200, Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl>
scrawled:

>MGW wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 2029 +0200, Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl>
>> scrawled:
>>
>>>I use PHP for that.
>>
>> Is there a way to do it without PHP? Or should I just bite the
>> bullet?
>
>There's also SSI (server side includes), but I like PHP :-)

Don't know SSI, either. If I have to learn one or the other, I will.
I was just hoping that there was some sort of line that means "include
the stuff contained in such-and-such file in this spot" that I could
use to include some plain HTML that might vary every few months in
small ways.

>> - when my
>> mother was my age, I was already a college grad. I've reached the age
>> where it is consoling to write my age in hexadecimal ;-P
>
>Does the knowledge needed to do that come with that age? I have no
>idea how to write hexadecimal numbers.. yet :-)

The knowledge comes with being old enough to have had to deal with
hexadecimal (base 16) when working on the old mainframe using cards.
The numbers after 9 are A,B,C,D,E,F,10,...19,1A, 1B, 1C... I'm now
30 years old in hexadecimal.

--

MGW

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 14:20:39 -0500, "Jim"
<spamaddyREMOVE@bellsouth.net> scrawled:

>"MGW" <mgw1979@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
>> I was thinking of switching to using a template page for the layout,
>> using tables. The problem is, I want to be able to easily change the
>> top, side and bottom of all the pages at once.
>
>Oh, you'll never hear this form the "pros" here but I suggest you have a
>look at Dynamic Web Templates offered in FrontPage.

Please cut the attitude. I have a great deal of respect for the pros
here. The reason I spend time in aww is because I want to learn and
this is a good place to do so. I seldom ask questions, but have
learned a lot just by lurking - enough, in fact, to know that it's
time to update my knowledge.

As I wrote, I'm currently using the borders function in FP. I want to
move away from that so that I can have more control over what I do.

I may be a relative newbie to webdesign (I've had a website for years
but am trying to update my skills so that I can do better work), but
that doesn't mean I want to be ignorant about what I'm doing. I'd
rather have something simple but clean than fancy but screwed up.

While I'm not a computer professional, I've worked as a computer
programmer when necessary, prefered PCs over MACs because I like being
able to use a command line interface when it's useful, and generally
like to know how things work. And I appreciate the time people like
Els, Grey, etc. are willing to spend helping newbies like me.

--

MGW

MGW wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 2111 +0200, Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl>
> scrawled:
>
>>MGW wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 2029 +0200, Els <els.aNOSPAM@tiscali.nl>
>>> scrawled:
>>>
>>>>I use PHP for that.
>>>
>>> Is there a way to do it without PHP? Or should I just bite the
>>> bullet?
>>
>>There's also SSI (server side includes), but I like PHP :-)
>
> Don't know SSI, either. If I have to learn one or the other, I will.
> I was just hoping that there was some sort of line that means "include
> the stuff contained in such-and-such file in this spot" that I could
> use to include some plain HTML that might vary every few months in
> small ways.

In PHP:
<?php include "filename.html" ?>

In SSI:
<!--#include virtual="filename.html" -->

>>> - when my
>>> mother was my age, I was already a college grad. I've reached the age
>>> where it is consoling to write my age in hexadecimal ;-P
>>
>>Does the knowledge needed to do that come with that age? I have no
>>idea how to write hexadecimal numbers.. yet :-)
>
> The knowledge comes with being old enough to have had to deal with
> hexadecimal (base 16) when working on the old mainframe using cards.
> The numbers after 9 are A,B,C,D,E,F,10,...19,1A, 1B, 1C...

That looks familiar though, just didn't connect it to the term
hexadecimal :-)
I know it from colour codes HTML/CSS: like FF = 255 :-)

> I'm now 30 years old in hexadecimal.

I'm 3 years younger then (in hexadecimal that is) :-)

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -