Go Back   Trackpads Community > General Discussions > Point/Counterpoint

Point/Counterpoint Debate newsworthy and other 'hot-button' topics here. If it can be debated, this is the forum for it. Can't be thin skinned - people will disagree with you. No flaming or personal attacks.

Point/Counterpoint

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-06-2008, 14:46   #1 (permalink)
Monkey Mouse
 
Woodmonkey's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Gold Staff Service Medal Gold Reputation Medal Bronze Referrals Medal Bronze Magazine Medal Silver Gallery Medal Gold Donations Award 2 Blue Star Silver Donations Award 
Total Awards: 12
My Mood
My Mood:
Status
Woodmonkey is offline
Post Count
58,366
My Photos
My Photos: 108
Staff Title
Trackpads XO
Member Flags
United States us connecticut
My Referrals
My Referrals: 15
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
Woodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond repute
Petz
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 97,292.17
Bank: 1,395,289.83
Total T-Bucks: 1,492,582.00
     
     
     

 
Post Jihad Means Offensive War to Spread Islam: Osama Bin Laden’s Warning to Europe

Jihad Means Offensive War to Spread Islam: Osama Bin Laden’s Warning to Europe


Just in case Europe didn’t catch his drift with one new message, al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden launched two audio taped broadsides on the Internet during the third week of March 2008. In them, he specifically threatened Europe with Jihad, apparently in response to recent stirrings of self-assertion on the Continent. It would seem that the republishing of some of the Danish cartoons, the release of a short film about Islam by Dutch filmmaker, Geert Wilders, and a sterner approach to the expansionist Islamist agenda by a crop of tough new European leaders have sparked a yelp of protest from the al Qaeda leadership.



To the Jihadi vanguard, it must have looked like Europe was well on its way to slipping back into a dhimmitude last seen centuries ago, when Jihadi warriors overran much of southern Europe, white women were prized features on auction blocks across the Caliphate, Christians and Jews knew their places in societies dominated by Islam, and it was ransom and tribute that flowed out of Christendom’s kingdoms, not impertinent caricatures of their Prophet. France already had cordoned off over 700 no-go zones where neither Napoleonic Code nor police were welcome. Belgian bishops had permitted North African illegal immigrants demanding sanctuary from threat of deportation to hold Muslim prayer services in beautiful Brussels cathedrals. A German judge had refused the desperate plea of an abused Moroccan-born woman for an expedited divorce, because, as she intoned from the bench, in the culture of Islam, it is permitted for a husband to beat his wife. The Archbishop of Canterbury had urged Britons to just accept the coming of Sharia in the UK. Theo van Gogh had been shot and stabbed to death because he stood unrepentantly for free speech, and his colleague, Ayan Hirsi Ali, had been hounded from the Netherlands altogether. Taxi drivers in Norway, the UK, and elsewhere were refusing blind passengers with Seeing Eye dogs, because they said dogs are deemed unclean animals in Islam. The newest architectural trend from Oxford to Cologne was the building of mammoth, Saudi-funded mega mosques. Yes, the establishment of Eurabia must have seemed well underway.



But then Europe began to push back and a new Pope mounted the throne of Peter, a “Panzer Pope” he’s been called, and gave a 2006 speech at the University of Regensburg in the sturdy Teutonic heart of this continent. He didn’t actually say anything about a crusade; in fact, Pope Benedict XVI, at Regensburg and since, has sought quite sincerely to present Christianity as a vehicle for discourse and reason among faiths. The 2008 establishment of a permanent council for dialogue between the Vatican and Islam was meant to build bridges, not spark fury and menace.



This is where the well-reasoned temperance of the Enlightenment falls flat, however. For the Islamic Jihad is not about reason, or temperance, or enlightenment. It is about conquest. And right now, al Qaeda and its Jihadi cohorts both home-grown and international, including the Muslim Brotherhood, the Union of Islamic Clerics, the European Council for Fatwa and Research, and their smooth-talking spokesmen such as Dr. Mustafa Ceric, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, and Tariq Ramadan, have set their sights on Europe. Europe is too liberal, too free, too open, too outspoken, too rich, and also nicely softened up by decades of inroads by concepts like multiculturalism, a paralyzing antipathy to discriminating judgment, and an abhorrence of self-defense.



Make no mistake: Osama bin Laden’s threat is real. Al Qaeda and the Jihadis, whose cultural references were formed in the searing sterility of the 7th Century Hijaz, are coming for Europe. In the Arab desert where Islam was born, the code of the tribes demands challenge, honor, and spoils. A society raised on the values of the strong, where nothing is ever produced but only seized from the weak, where concession and compromise are met with contempt, and where revenge and retribution define human interaction – a society such as this cannot abide a civilization of uninhibited intellectuality and tolerance. In such a milieu, Islam developed, inextricably, as both socio-political system and monotheistic faith. Both remain hard, unforgiving, and bent on global domination. The sacred and immutable doctrine of Islam is laid out for all time in the revealed scripture of the Koran, the hadiths (or sayings of Muhammad), and the Sunna (or accounts of Muhammad’s deeds). There is nothing in any of these about turning the other cheek, loving one’s neighbor as oneself, or the inherent equality of all human beings. Neither will you find virtues of non-violence, self-sacrifice, or truthfulness applicable among any people but Muslims themselves. For the infidel, there is only the choice of three: convert, submit, or die.



Europe needs to wake up, and quickly. The obligatory Islamic warning has been given, the Continent put on notice that unless it agrees to compromise on its liberal lifestyle and legal system, al Qaeda will unleash its Jihadi attackers. The Vatican, too, notably accused of inspiring another crusade only after the conciliatory announcement was made about the new council for interfaith dialogue, will need to muster all the stern resolve and brilliant theological command of its current Vicar if nearly-spent Christianity is to help lead Europe’s defense. For in the end, while its population may well exhibit the studied ennui of a post-faith-based society, Europe nevertheless has much to be proud of and plenty to defend. And even though its advanced technology, orderly and educated native citizens, magnificent artistic expression, complex economies, and sophisticated political systems elicit scant acknowledgment from the savage Jihadis sworn to destroy it all, these are accomplishments that represent a pinnacle of human development. Europe is the well-spring as well as the front line of defense for modern concepts of liberal democracy now spreading inexorably the world over (except for the Arab/Muslim part of it).



Unless Europeans at every level, from the small village grocer to the leaders of academia, government, labor, and media, somehow grasp that the world view driving al Qaeda’s warnings shares virtually nothing in common with their own and adapt their defenses accordingly, it is completely conceivable that Bernard Lewis’s dire prediction about the likely Islamization of Europe by century’s end could prove true. Or, as Daniel Pipes put it some time ago, Europe must either somehow assimilate its burgeoning and increasingly hostile Muslim elements, adopt a draconian program of expulsion and immigration control, or acquiesce to Muslim dominance.



Islam does not really mean peace and Jihad is not inner yoga. Islam means submission: submission to Allah, to Islam, and to Sharia. The only peace being offered by Osama bin Laden is under the shade of the Koran and the sword. Whether by da’wa (preaching and persuasion), infiltration and destruction of faith from within, or the outright terror that al Qaeda promises its enemies, it is not just Europe that faces the Jihadi onslaught. It is every society that dares to be free to choose its own way of life, elect its own leaders, and enact its own laws. It is Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, and the United States of America.



Knowing the enemy, naming the enemy, and mastering the enemy’s culture, history, ideology, and tactics are essential to meeting and defeating his challenge. Only by frankly facing the Islamic Jihad and resisting every urge to dismiss it as primitive, already defeated, or somehow unequal to modern civilizations such as our own, will we have any chance of prevailing.

The Source
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How May I Help You?





PM me through this link if clicking on those banners doesn't help with your questions

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Woodmonkey is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Trackpads Information
Click to Visit
Old 04-06-2008, 15:17   #2 (permalink)
Non-Commissioned Officer
 
john mclaughlin's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Army Service Button 
Total Awards: 1
My Mood
My Mood:
Status
john mclaughlin is offline
Post Count
1,515
My Photos
My Photos: 45
Member Flags
United States us virginia
My Referrals
My Referrals: 0
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
john mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura about
Social Networking View Member's Myspace Profile
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 11,295.36
Bank: 0.00
Total T-Bucks: 11,295.36
 

 
Default Re: Jihad Means Offensive War to Spread Islam: Osama Bin Laden’s Warning to Europe

Back in the day,the pope would send out armies to vanquish the foes of christianity.Cant we justify this holy jihad war as such and let the churches fight it out?Think about it The presbyterian artillery,the our lady of all saints special amphibious assualt battallion.That would also lessen the strain on US taxpayers.
john mclaughlin is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2008, 15:51   #3 (permalink)
Racy Ol' Lady
 
Snowden's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Silver Staff Service Medal Silver Reputation  Medal Silver Commanders Coin Silver Commanders Coin Silver Donations Award Gold Community Medal Gold Threads Medal 
Total Awards: 7
My Mood
My Mood:
Status
Snowden is offline
Post Count
48,414
My Photos
My Photos: 39
Member Flags
United States us maryland
My Referrals
My Referrals: 6
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
Snowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant future
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 456,073.76
Bank: 0.00
Total T-Bucks: 456,073.76
     
     

 
Post Re: Jihad Means Offensive War to Spread Islam: Osama Bin Laden’s Warning to Europe

I've never seen a more brilliant and concise -- and accurate -- exposè of Islam. Anybody who reads this and discredits or disbelieves its accuracy is making a huge mistake. This is Islam as it is; this is the enemy we are fighting -- and this enemy has been crawling peacefully or fighting bloody battles with us since the 7th Century and since Poland's troops stopped it from capturing Vienna in the 14th Century, it has quietly made great strides by moving peacefully across Eastern Europe. Now Islam is back to the blood bath method of taking over, and if we don't wake up and stop them, we will have Shari'a law in the UK and the US and all the Northern Hemisphere.

Quote:
The sacred and immutable doctrine of Islam is laid out for all time in the revealed scripture of the Koran, the hadiths (or sayings of Muhammad), and the Sunna (or accounts of Muhammad’s deeds). There is nothing in any of these about turning the other cheek, loving one’s neighbor as oneself, or the inherent equality of all human beings. Neither will you find virtues of non-violence, self-sacrifice, or truthfulness applicable among any people but Muslims themselves. For the infidel, there is only the choice of three: convert, submit, or die.


Every word of this is accurate; truth we absolutely must realize and recognize as the threat it is. Our children, our grandchildren -- can we let them be held captive to an ideology so cruel and inhuman? We must fight and we must win.


Quote:
Unless Europeans at every level, from the small village grocer to the leaders of academia, government, labor, and media, somehow grasp that the world view driving al Qaeda’s warnings shares virtually nothing in common with their own and adapt their defenses accordingly, it is completely conceivable that Bernard Lewis’s dire prediction about the likely Islamization of Europe by century’s end could prove true. Or, as Daniel Pipes put it some time ago, Europe must either somehow assimilate its burgeoning and increasingly hostile Muslim elements, adopt a draconian program of expulsion and immigration control, or acquiesce to Muslim dominance.
Bernard Lewis had an encyclopedic knowledge of Islam. Read any of his books on the subject; he had absolute mastery of what Islam was, is and will be, and none of that is good for the world. Expulsion is not "the American way," and "Freedom of Religion" is as sacred to us as religion itself -- but this must be viewed as fighting this religion in order for that freedom to continue to exist. There is no freedom of religion in Islam; you are Muslim or you die. The day of the dhimmi will last only until the world is entirely Islamic; then the non-Muslims will die.

They will populate quickly, as they have large families; even those who came here and live here in peace, will provide warriors to make sure we become an Islamic nation and our Constitution a discarded piece of paper.


Quote:
Islam does not really mean peace and Jihad is not inner yoga. Islam means submission: submission to Allah, to Islam, and to Sharia. The only peace being offered by Osama bin Laden is under the shade of the Koran and the sword. Whether by da’wa (preaching and persuasion), infiltration and destruction of faith from within, or the outright terror that al Qaeda promises its enemies, it is not just Europe that faces the Jihadi onslaught. It is every society that dares to be free to choose its own way of life, elect its own leaders, and enact its own laws. It is Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, and the United States of America.


(My emphasis above) All of this is vital, of course; that's just something we will face very soon if our government and the voting public don't get with it and start fighting to keep our country free. Islam is a bloody religion; read the history of Islam and of Mohammad. Bernard Lewis is a good place to start. Fr. Menezes is a good place to start. Either of those two will give history to make your blood curdle. Read Why I Am Not a Muslim by Ibn Warraq, who was raised in that religion. Read any of the books by Robert Spencer to see what is happening in Islam today.

Don't joke about it. This is dead serious and it means war right here in our streets and countryside.

Quote:
Knowing the enemy, naming the enemy, and mastering the enemy’s culture, history, ideology, and tactics are essential to meeting and defeating his challenge. Only by frankly facing the Islamic Jihad and resisting every urge to dismiss it as primitive, already defeated, or somehow unequal to modern civilizations such as our own, will we have any chance of prevailing.


This is our worst weakness. Not knowing or even attempting to understand Islam and what it's all about. We must fight with every means possible -- and we must do so prayerfully, because ultimately, Christianity is our only hope of winning. That sounds simplistic, perhaps; it is not. We need to understand, prepare very quickly and fight -- and pray. We cannot win without being a people who pray. It's part of the weapon, the main weapon, because at the center of it, this is spiritual warfare. Something today's people neither understand nor believe. And that could cost us everything we hold dear. For ourselves and for our descendants.

It's not a joke.
__________________
Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!


MOTM, Jan 2005, Aug 2007
Golden Cookie Award, 2005.
Aug 2006 Perv of the Month
Perv. Outreach Award, 2007

Last edited by Snowden; 04-06-2008 at 15:55.
Snowden is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2008, 17:46   #4 (permalink)
NCO
 
sabadgeman's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Total Awards:
My Mood
My Mood:
Status
sabadgeman is offline
Post Count
2,104
My Photos
My Photos: 20
Staff Title
CDIV Health & Fitness Forum Moderator
Member Flags
United Kingdom uk scotland
My Referrals
My Referrals: 0
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
sabadgeman has much to be proud ofsabadgeman has much to be proud ofsabadgeman has much to be proud ofsabadgeman has much to be proud ofsabadgeman has much to be proud ofsabadgeman has much to be proud ofsabadgeman has much to be proud ofsabadgeman has much to be proud ofsabadgeman has much to be proud ofsabadgeman has much to be proud ofsabadgeman has much to be proud of
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 14,983.13
Bank: 10.34
Total T-Bucks: 14,993.47
     

 
Default Re: Jihad Means Offensive War to Spread Islam: Osama Bin Laden’s Warning to Europe

At last people are waking up to reality but I am sure the current crop of politicians are pseudo-commies running this government will fawn and fall over themselves to acquiesce to the muslims!
__________________
"We can not right matters by taking from one what he has honestly acquired to bestow upon another what he has not earned." Benjamin Harrison 23rd US President


sabadgeman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2008, 17:56   #5 (permalink)
Non-Commissioned Officer
 
john mclaughlin's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Army Service Button 
Total Awards: 1
My Mood
My Mood:
Status
john mclaughlin is offline
Post Count
1,515
My Photos
My Photos: 45
Member Flags
United States us virginia
My Referrals
My Referrals: 0
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
john mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura aboutjohn mclaughlin has a spectacular aura about
Social Networking View Member's Myspace Profile
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 11,295.36
Bank: 0.00
Total T-Bucks: 11,295.36
 

 
Default Re: Jihad Means Offensive War to Spread Islam: Osama Bin Laden’s Warning to Europe

I believe what you say as truth,yet I know in my heart that the fanaticism of these sob m.f.ers cannot take shape in the fun loving regions of the world.Because we have tasted the freedom,we like our cash flow,we even revel in our decadence,look how fat our people are.Do you think they can take food from the plate without losing an arm?Just even talk about making a modern day women doing something she doesnt like will have legions of soccer moms tearing you to shreds.In the ghettos it wont work,the drug dealers will shoot them because they dont like drugs.In the poor regions of the world it could take shape but any US backed dictator who has any cahones will surely crush them.Communism didnt work ,naziism didnt work,hippy utopias tried,and surely these bloodthirsty bandits will prove to be nothing more than an Ali Baba story gone horribly astray.
john mclaughlin is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2008, 18:11   #6 (permalink)
Racy Ol' Lady
 
Snowden's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Silver Staff Service Medal Silver Reputation  Medal Silver Commanders Coin Silver Commanders Coin Silver Donations Award Gold Community Medal Gold Threads Medal 
Total Awards: 7
My Mood
My Mood:
Status
Snowden is offline
Post Count
48,414
My Photos
My Photos: 39
Member Flags
United States us maryland
My Referrals
My Referrals: 6
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
Snowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant future
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 456,073.76
Bank: 0.00
Total T-Bucks: 456,073.76
     
     

 
Post Re: Jihad Means Offensive War to Spread Islam: Osama Bin Laden’s Warning to Europe

Quote:
Originally Posted by john mclaughlin View Post
I believe what you say as truth,yet I know in my heart that the fanaticism of these sob m.f.ers cannot take shape in the fun loving regions of the world.Because we have tasted the freedom,we like our cash flow,we even revel in our decadence,look how fat our people are.Do you think they can take food from the plate without losing an arm?Just even talk about making a modern day women doing something she doesnt like will have legions of soccer moms tearing you to shreds.In the ghettos it wont work,the drug dealers will shoot them because they dont like drugs.In the poor regions of the world it could take shape but any US backed dictator who has any cahones will surely crush them.Communism didnt work ,naziism didnt work,hippy utopias tried,and surely these bloodthirsty bandits will prove to be nothing more than an Ali Baba story gone horribly astray.
John, for anything in the world other than Islam, I could see that this makes sense -- because for anything in the world other than Islam, it does make sense. Not for Islam. Trust me; I do know about Islam.

If you had a choice between being beheaded with a sword as you stand and argue with someone -- what would you do? This is warfare that reverts to 7th Century methods even as they are willing to use today's technology to take down the Twin Towers and go for the Pentagon. They also planned on ramming the White House with that third plane. So they will use whatever they wish as weapons. They will go for nuclear weapons too, as we know.

The way they keep the millions of Muslims in line is by using fear. They are fanatics; their entire life is aimed at obeying the rules laid down by the Prophet, who is the real god of Islam -- he and the devil within him. Drug dealers won't know what hit them; decadence as we see it in the cities of Europe and this nation will disappear as people find themselves facing knives as well as modern weapons. There's something about knives and swords, you know. Something inherently evil in people who will slice off your head while you stand there in front of them saying they have no authority over you. You see it done to the woman next door, and your wife will cower inside her own house.

We're speaking of evil and fanaticism, John. Islam as practiced by those fanatics is like nothing you've ever seen unless you were in a very bloody battle -- or watching the slaughter in the killing fields. This is what they will bring here -- slaughter. They do not mind blood; they love it. They don't even mind their own blood; they are willing, even eager, to die for Allah. Think of the suicide bombers; this really can be avoided, of course. But our government doesn't see it coming; our politicians are funding it by buying 28% of our oil from those who finance al Qaeda.

It's not something that will just go away; these people believe strongly that they are doing God's will; and that is their entire reason for being.
__________________
Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!


MOTM, Jan 2005, Aug 2007
Golden Cookie Award, 2005.
Aug 2006 Perv of the Month
Perv. Outreach Award, 2007
Snowden is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2008, 19:23   #7 (permalink)
Non-Commissioned Officer
 
john mclaughlin's Avatar