Go Back   Trackpads Community > General Discussions > Point/Counterpoint

Point/Counterpoint Debate newsworthy and other 'hot-button' topics here. If it can be debated, this is the forum for it. Can't be thin skinned - people will disagree with you. No flaming or personal attacks.

Point/Counterpoint

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-07-2008, 15:46   #1 (permalink)
NCO
 
leobold1's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Silver Staff Service Medal Silver Reputation  Medal Silver Commanders Coin Marine Corps Service Button Army Service Button Bronze Community Medal 1 Blue Star Silver Threads Medal 
Total Awards: 8
My Mood
My Mood:
Status
leobold1 is offline
Post Count
4,630
My Photos
My Photos: 17
Staff Title
Moderator Commander
Member Flags
United States us texas
My Referrals
My Referrals: 0
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
leobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud of
Social Networking View Member's YouTube Profile
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 6,211.86
Bank: 139,775.63
Total T-Bucks: 145,987.49
     

 
Post Homeschoolers' setback sends shock waves through state

Homeschoolers' setback sends shock waves through state

Bob Egelko, Jill Tucker, Chronicle Staff Writers

Friday, March 7, 2008

(03-07) 04:00 PST LOS ANGELES --

A California appeals court ruling clamping down on homeschooling by parents without teaching credentials sent shock waves across the state this week, leaving an estimated 166,000 children as possible truants and their parents at risk of prosecution.

The homeschooling movement never saw the case coming.

"At first, there was a sense of, 'No way,' " said homeschool parent Loren Mavromati, a resident of Redondo Beach (Los Angeles County) who is active with a homeschool association. "Then there was a little bit of fear. I think it has moved now into indignation."

The ruling arose from a child welfare dispute between the Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family Services and Philip and Mary Long of Lynwood, who have been homeschooling their eight children. Mary Long is their teacher, but holds no teaching credential.

The parents said they also enrolled their children in Sunland Christian School, a private religious academy in Sylmar (Los Angeles County), which considers the Long children part of its independent study program and visits the home about four times a year.

The Second District Court of Appeal ruled that California law requires parents to send their children to full-time public or private schools or have them taught by credentialed tutors at home.

Some homeschoolers are affiliated with private or charter schools, like the Longs, but others fly under the radar completely. Many homeschooling families avoid truancy laws by registering with the state as a private school and then enroll only their own children.

Yet the appeals court said state law has been clear since at least 1953, when another appellate court rejected a challenge by homeschooling parents to California's compulsory education statutes. Those statutes require children ages 6 to 18 to attend a full-time day school, either public or private, or to be instructed by a tutor who holds a state credential for the child's grade level.

"California courts have held that ... parents do not have a constitutional right to homeschool their children," Justice H. Walter Croskey said in the 3-0 ruling issued on Feb. 28. "Parents have a legal duty to see to their children's schooling under the provisions of these laws."

Parents can be criminally prosecuted for failing to comply, Croskey said.

"A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation as a means of protecting the public welfare," the judge wrote, quoting from a 1961 case on a similar issue.

Union pleased with ruling

The ruling was applauded by a director for the state's largest teachers union.

"We're happy," said Lloyd Porter, who is on the California Teachers Association board of directors. "We always think students should be taught by credentialed teachers, no matter what the setting."

A spokesman for the state Department of Education said the agency is reviewing the decision to determine its impact on current policies and procedures. State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell issued a statement saying he supports "parental choice when it comes to homeschooling."

Brad Dacus, president of the Pacific Justice Institute, which agreed earlier this week to represent Sunland Christian School and legally advise the Long family on a likely appeal to the state Supreme Court, said the appellate court ruling has set a precedent that can now be used to go after homeschoolers. "With this case law, anyone in California who is homeschooling without a teaching credential is subject to prosecution for truancy violation, which could require community service, heavy fines and possibly removal of their children under allegations of educational neglect," Dacus said.

Parents say they choose homeschooling for a variety of reasons, from religious beliefs to disillusionment with the local public schools.

Homeschooling parent Debbie Schwarzer of Los Altos said she's ready for a fight.

Schwarzer runs Oak Hill Academy out of her Santa Clara County home. It is a state-registered private school with two students, she said, noting they are her own children, ages 10 and 12. She does not have a teaching credential, but she does have a law degree.

"I'm kind of hoping some truancy officer shows up on my doorstep," she said. "I'm ready. I have damn good arguments."

She opted to teach her children at home to better meet their needs.

The ruling, Schwarzer said, "stinks."

Began as child welfare case

The Long family legal battle didn't start out as a test case on the validity of homeschooling. It was a child welfare case.

A juvenile court judge looking into one child's complaint of mistreatment by Philip Long found that the children were being poorly educated but refused to order two of the children, ages 7 and 9, to be enrolled in a full-time school. He said parents in California have a right to educate their children at home.

The appeals court told the juvenile court judge to require the parents to comply with the law by enrolling their children in a school, but excluded the Sunland Christian School from enrolling the children because that institution "was willing to participate in the deprivation of the children's right to a legal education."

The decision could also affect other kinds of homeschooled children, including those enrolled in independent study or distance learning through public charter schools - a setup similar to the one the Longs have, Dacus said.

Charter school advocates disagreed, saying Thursday that charter schools are public and are required to employ only credentialed teachers to supervise students - whether in class or through independent study.

Ruling will apply statewide

Michael Smith, president of the Home School Legal Defense Association, said the ruling would effectively ban homeschooling in the state.

"California is now on the path to being the only state to deny the vast majority of homeschooling parents their fundamental right to teach their own children at home," he said in a statement.

But Leslie Heimov, executive director of the Children's Law Center of Los Angeles, which represented the Longs' two children in the case, said the ruling did not change the law.

"They just affirmed that the current California law, which has been unchanged since the last time it was ruled on in the 1950s, is that children have to be educated in a public school, an accredited private school, or with an accredited tutor," she said. "If they want to send them to a private Christian school, they can, but they have to actually go to the school and be taught by teachers."

Heimov said her organization's chief concern was not the quality of the children's education, but their "being in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety."

Online resources

The ruling: To view the ruling by the Second District Court of Appeal, go to links.sfgate.com/ZCQR.

E-mail the writers at begelko@sfchronicle.com and jtucker@sfchronicle.com.
__________________
Compel others: Do not be compelled by them
Sun-Tzu



leobold1 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Trackpads Information
Click to Visit
Old 03-07-2008, 16:00   #2 (permalink)
Monkey Mouse
 
Woodmonkey's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Gold Staff Service Medal Gold Reputation Medal Bronze Referrals Medal Bronze Magazine Medal Silver Gallery Medal Gold Donations Award 2 Blue Star Silver Donations Award 
Total Awards: 12
My Mood
My Mood:
Status
Woodmonkey is offline
Post Count
57,707
My Photos
My Photos: 108
Staff Title
Trackpads XO
Member Flags
United States us connecticut
My Referrals
My Referrals: 15
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
Woodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond reputeWoodmonkey has a reputation beyond repute
Petz
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 62,934.34
Bank: 1,214,683.76
Total T-Bucks: 1,277,618.10
     
     
     

 
Default Re: Homeschoolers' setback sends shock waves through state

I think this is headed to the Supreme Court.
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How May I Help You?





PM me through this link if clicking on those banners doesn't help with your questions

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Woodmonkey is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2008, 20:48   #3 (permalink)
Icing Queen
 
conlor's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Silver Staff Service Medal Silver Reputation  Medal Gold Commanders Coin Silver Commanders Coin Silver Commanders Coin Army Service Button Silver Community Medal 1 Blue Star 
Total Awards: 9
My Mood
Status
conlor is offline
Post Count
23,676
My Photos
My Photos: 1
Staff Title
EDIV Trivia Coordinator
Member Flags
United States Undisclosed
My Referrals
My Referrals: 1
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
conlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond repute
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 124,476.47
Bank: 42,891.45
Total T-Bucks: 167,367.92
     
     
 

 
Default Re: Homeschoolers' setback sends shock waves through state

I think its a good idea. Who can know what goes on inside a home when the kids don't have contact with anyone on the outside! They are completely brain-washed by their parents.
__________________
Your memory is our keepsake, With which we'll never part. God has you in his keeping, We have you in our hearts.

~2004 winner of The Outreach Award
~2005 co-winner of The Bronze Button Award
~March 2006 Perv of the Month
~Sept 2006, Oct 2007 - MOTM
~2007 Oct-Dec MOTQ
~2007 Female Silver Raincoat Recipient
~2007 MOTY
conlor is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2008, 02:40   #4 (permalink)
NCO
 
leobold1's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Silver Staff Service Medal Silver Reputation  Medal Silver Commanders Coin Marine Corps Service Button Army Service Button Bronze Community Medal 1 Blue Star Silver Threads Medal 
Total Awards: 8
My Mood
My Mood:
Status
leobold1 is offline
Post Count
4,630
My Photos
My Photos: 17
Staff Title
Moderator Commander
Member Flags
United States us texas
My Referrals
My Referrals: 0
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
leobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud ofleobold1 has much to be proud of
Social Networking View Member's YouTube Profile
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 6,211.86
Bank: 139,775.63
Total T-Bucks: 145,987.49
     

 
Post Re: Homeschoolers' setback sends shock waves through state

Quote:
Originally Posted by conlor View Post
I think its a good idea. Who can know what goes on inside a home when the kids don't have contact with anyone on the outside! They are completely brain-washed by their parents.

Brainwashed by your parents/guardians, or the State of California.

Not really a tough choice there.
__________________
Compel others: Do not be compelled by them
Sun-Tzu



leobold1 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2008, 12:16   #5 (permalink)
Icing Queen
 
conlor's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Silver Staff Service Medal Silver Reputation  Medal Gold Commanders Coin Silver Commanders Coin Silver Commanders Coin Army Service Button Silver Community Medal 1 Blue Star 
Total Awards: 9
My Mood
Status
conlor is offline
Post Count
23,676
My Photos
My Photos: 1
Staff Title
EDIV Trivia Coordinator
Member Flags
United States Undisclosed
My Referrals
My Referrals: 1
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
conlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond reputeconlor has a reputation beyond repute
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 124,476.47
Bank: 42,891.45
Total T-Bucks: 167,367.92
     
     
 

 
Default Re: Homeschoolers' setback sends shock waves through state

When kids are around other people, they get more than one opinion and can decide what they want to believe.

We all know there are some really crazy people, including parents, and to think that a kid might only be subjected to the crazies, makes me sick. If a kid is black and blue in a public school, there will be a some questions, or should be. When they're home-schooled, they can just be kept indoors until the bruises go away.

And that's only the physical damage that could be done.

Some home schooling parents are great, and probably most of them, but not all.
__________________
Your memory is our keepsake, With which we'll never part. God has you in his keeping, We have you in our hearts.

~2004 winner of The Outreach Award
~2005 co-winner of The Bronze Button Award
~March 2006 Perv of the Month
~Sept 2006, Oct 2007 - MOTM
~2007 Oct-Dec MOTQ
~2007 Female Silver Raincoat Recipient
~2007 MOTY
conlor is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2008, 13:11   #6 (permalink)
Racy Ol' Lady
 
Snowden's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Silver Staff Service Medal Silver Reputation  Medal Silver Commanders Coin Silver Commanders Coin Silver Donations Award Gold Community Medal Gold Threads Medal 
Total Awards: 7
My Mood
My Mood:
Status
Snowden is online now
Post Count
47,878
My Photos
My Photos: 25
Member Flags
United States us maryland
My Referrals
My Referrals: 6
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
Snowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant futureSnowden has a brilliant future
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 425,498.77
Bank: 0.00
Total T-Bucks: 425,498.77
     
     

 
Default Re: Homeschoolers' setback sends shock waves through state

Maryland has a program that tells the parents the minimal requirements and, I believe, has tests to be sure the kids are educated to that point. Usually, of course, the home schooled students are far ahead of those taught in public schools.

As to needing peers, that's really nice but unnecessary. I see my grandchildren in college adapting to friends they are meeting there. They have no problems with meeting people. And they will be very, very difficult to brainwash.
__________________
Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!


MOTM, Jan 2005, Aug 2007
Golden Cookie Award, 2005.
Aug 2006 Perv of the Month
Perv. Outreach Award, 2007
Snowden is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2008, 13:20   #7 (permalink)
NCO
 
Manchu34's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Silver Staff Service Medal Silver Reputation  Medal Bronze Reputation  Medal