A Nation of Christians Is Not a Christian Nation

[Woodmonkey]

A Nation of Christians Is Not a Christian Nation


JOHN McCAIN was not on the campus of Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University last year for very long — the senator, who once referred to Mr. Falwell and Pat Robertson as “agents of intolerance,” was there to receive an honorary degree — but he seems to have picked up some theology along with his academic hood. In an interview with Beliefnet.com last weekend, Mr. McCain repeated what is an article of faith among many American evangelicals: “the Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation.”

According to Scripture, however, believers are to be wary of all mortal powers. Their home is the kingdom of God, which transcends all earthly things, not any particular nation-state. The Psalmist advises believers to “put not your trust in princes.” The author of Job says that the Lord “shows no partiality to princes nor regards the rich above the poor, for they are all the work of his hands.” Before Pilate, Jesus says, “My kingdom is not of this world.” And if, as Paul writes in Galatians, “there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus,” then it is difficult to see how there could be a distinction in God’s eyes between, say, an American and an Australian. In fact, there is no distinction if you believe Peter’s words in the Acts of the Apostles: “I most certainly believe now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is welcome to him.”

The kingdom Jesus preached was radical. Not only are nations irrelevant, but families are, too: he instructs those who would be his disciples to give up all they have and all those they know to follow him.

The only acknowledgment of religion in the original Constitution is a utilitarian one: the document is dated “in the year of our Lord 1787.” Even the religion clause of the First Amendment is framed dryly and without reference to any particular faith. The Connecticut ratifying convention debated rewriting the preamble to take note of God’s authority, but the effort failed.

A pseudonymous opponent of the Connecticut proposal had some fun with the notion of a deity who would, in a sense, be checking the index for his name: “A low mind may imagine that God, like a foolish old man, will think himself slighted and dishonored if he is not complimented with a seat or a prologue of recognition in the Constitution.” Instead, the framers, the opponent wrote in The American Mercury, “come to us in the plain language of common sense and propose to our understanding a system of government as the invention of mere human wisdom; no deity comes down to dictate it, not a God appears in a dream to propose any part of it.”

While many states maintained established churches and religious tests for office — Massachusetts was the last to disestablish, in 1833 — the federal framers, in their refusal to link civil rights to religious observance or adherence, helped create a culture of religious liberty that ultimately carried the day.

Thomas Jefferson said that his bill for religious liberty in Virginia was “meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mahometan, the Hindu, and infidel of every denomination.” When George Washington was inaugurated in New York in April 1789, Gershom Seixas, the hazan of Shearith Israel, was listed among the city’s clergymen (there were 14 in New York at the time) — a sign of acceptance and respect. The next year, Washington wrote the Hebrew Congregation of Newport, R.I., saying, “happily the government of the United States ... gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance. ... Everyone shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree, and there shall be none to make him afraid.”

Andrew Jackson resisted bids in the 1820s to form a “Christian party in politics.” Abraham Lincoln buried a proposed “Christian amendment” to the Constitution to declare the nation’s fealty to Jesus. Theodore Roosevelt defended William Howard Taft, a Unitarian, from religious attacks by supporters of William Jennings Bryan.

The founders were not anti-religion. Many of them were faithful in their personal lives, and in their public language they evoked God. They grounded the founding principle of the nation — that all men are created equal — in the divine. But they wanted faith to be one thread in the country’s tapestry, not the whole tapestry.

In the 1790s, in the waters off Tripoli, pirates were making sport of American shipping near the Barbary Coast. Toward the end of his second term, Washington sent Joel Barlow, the diplomat-poet, to Tripoli to settle matters, and the resulting treaty, finished after Washington left office, bought a few years of peace. Article 11 of this long-ago document says that “as the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,” there should be no cause for conflict over differences of “religious opinion” between countries.

The treaty passed the Senate unanimously. Mr. McCain is not the only American who would find it useful reading.

The Source

[Betty Boop]

Indeed, they are not the same and indeed our founding fathers were not anti-God but respected the differences of ways of worshipping of "nature's God" and "their Creator". One only need read the opening lines of the Declaration of Independence to realize this:

The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies
In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

It is our history to recognize a power far greater than man and respect each man's right to then worship in their way without oppression or fear.

A very good article of historical documentation indeed!

[redtanker]

interesting read,,, thanx for the post

[Scrappy]

Me thinks the article is an incomplete research of a thesis. God gave the Jews a king, even though He'd rather have not. God gave us a chance at liberty despite knowing we'd stray. God gave us a form of government from before Jesus, even if human fallicy resides in it. If it were not for Jesus, this nation would have never been.

[Snowden]

Actually, it's an excellent article as to the intent of our founders to establish a nation where religion is allowed according to one's own conscience and calling, and not run by any religion at all. This is how Jesus said for us to spread His word -- tell it, but not insist that the others come to our way of thinking. Freedom of choice as to religion, which is indeed one of the main reasons this country was founded.

We pay no fealty to any religion as a nation; our taxes do not support any one religion over the others. All are allowed, all add to the fabric of this nation. I believe this article expresses this beautifully and that this intent was right. That most of us are Christians would be better felt if Christians lived up to what we believe. None of us do; but we do pray for the country, hopefully.

I find this both of interest and as a reminder of our history. An important read...for everyone in America, especially those who would change this.

[Scrappy]

Originally Posted by Snowden

Actually, it's an excellent article as to the intent of our founders to establish a nation where religion is allowed according to one's own conscience and calling, and not run by any religion at all. This is how Jesus said for us to spread His word -- tell it, but not insist that the others come to our way of thinking. Freedom of choice as to religion, which is indeed one of the main reasons this country was founded.

We pay no fealty to any religion as a nation; our taxes do not support any one religion over the others. All are allowed, all add to the fabric of this nation. I believe this article expresses this beautifully and that this intent was right. That most of us are Christians would be better felt if Christians lived up to what we believe. None of us do; but we do pray for the country, hopefully.

I find this both of interest and as a reminder of our history. An important read...for everyone in America, especially those who would change this.

I'm glad you think so, and glad you expounded on your idea. That has kept me from dismissing the article out right because of it's lack of conclusiveness on it's original statement.

Let's say slicing hairs is a fine task and general statements do no good. What I see as the differnce in opinions is a "Christian Nation" versus a "christian nation." I completely agree that this nation has not, nor ever will be a "Christian nation." What I do have difficulty with is the author's dismissal of Christianity in the formation of this nation.

I'll refer back to my previous post to clarify thoughts on the statement.

Originally Posted by me

If it were not for Jesus, this nation would have never been.

Lets say the Jew Jesus never came around, there would be no differentiation the existing dogma of Jews being different from gentile. He ended that and bridged that gap. I think Jews would have never recovered from their later years after the temple was razed. After Jesus, the holyness was no longer restricted to the Jewish. From there we get the Church, that church ended up corrupt, causing the Protestant Reformation challenging the Roman Catholic Church (and to some extent, Greek Orthodox) and causing a split in ideology and theology. The restrictions in the "civilized world" caused protestants to move to America. The ideology of the protestants defied a single ruler who oppresses subjects (which is why the first move began). Thus we end up with a nation that happened because of Jesus.

Saying that we are not a "Christian Nation", I agree with. Yet the author's dismissal of christianity not playing a part in the foundation of the nation is ludicous.

Originally Posted by original source

The only acknowledgment of religion in the original Constitution is a utilitarian one: the document is dated “in the year of our Lord 1787.” Even the religion clause of the First Amendment is framed dryly and without reference to any particular faith. The Connecticut ratifying convention debated rewriting the preamble to take note of God’s authority, but the effort failed.

A pseudonymous opponent of the Connecticut proposal had some fun with the notion of a deity who would, in a sense, be checking the index for his name: “A low mind may imagine that God, like a foolish old man, will think himself slighted and dishonored if he is not complimented with a seat or a prologue of recognition in the Constitution.” Instead, the framers, the opponent wrote in The American Mercury, “come to us in the plain language of common sense and propose to our understanding a system of government as the invention of mere human wisdom; no deity comes down to dictate it, not a God appears in a dream to propose any part of it.”

That last statement is foolish. The three parts of the government were laid out before Jesus was born. You've got the president, you've got your congress, and you have your judges stated as a proper order of a well groomed governance. For him say God or His teachings had nothing to do with it, but it rests solely with the intellect of men, needs to reread the founders papers. I can agree that it is the intellect and reasoning of the founders that religion, or religious ideology, be disseperated from rule of law. That was part of the reformation which they were well aware of, the rules of law oppressing the people. But that itself is an acknowlegement of God -- sorry, this country can't get away from it's foundations. Some of the Federalists papers sounds like an exposition of the Exodus, Daniel or even Romans.

For those of you who are on a fence post concerning the founding of this nation by God, and arguing that if it's God's nation then why did the founders set it up without God in the constitution, I'll offer a simple thought. Given that good men wish governence by good men, preferably righteous men, given that men are fallable, given that what man's constructs will fail in time, given that God's laws are infallable, why would God ever wish the perfection of His will to be enforced and enacted by fallible men? God would never want corruption of one man forced upon another. That's why we separate things, He told us to. Still to say the foundation is without God, and rests solely on the intellect and so called wisdom of men (which you can read proverbs and find 90% of the common sense of the founders) is a stinky load that too many people are buying these days. I agree we are not a "Christian Nation".