Go Back   Trackpads Community > General Discussions > Point/Counterpoint

Point/Counterpoint Debate newsworthy and other 'hot-button' topics here. If it can be debated, this is the forum for it. Can't be thin skinned - people will disagree with you. No flaming or personal attacks.

Point/Counterpoint

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-30-2007, 19:51   #1 (permalink)
Junior Officer
 
Shooterman's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Silver Reputation  Medal Army Service Button Bronze Community Medal 
Total Awards: 3
My Mood
Status
Shooterman is offline
Post Count
2,786
My Photos
My Photos: 0
Member Flags
United States
My Referrals
My Referrals: 3
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
Shooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to behold
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 33,922.23
Bank: 0.00
Total T-Bucks: 33,922.23
 

 
Default US Dollar, R.I.P.

"The call for more money to fix the financial markets comes just as global inflation is beginning to cause real mischief...”

EVEN IN DEATH, it seems you're no longer safe from the iniquities of inflation.

In Cheshire, England, a man has just been charged with stealing 400 bronze memorial plaques from his local crematorium. Bronze is 90% copper, and thanks to the price of copper quadrupling inside four years, the melt value of those RIPs now stands above 145,000 pounds — some $290,000 at today's exchange rate.

Outside the Garden of Remembrance, beware the evils of inflation at dinnertime, too. Fishmongers in Thailand have been disguising meat from the deadly, and therefore worthless, puffer fish as salmon, reports the Associated Press, killing 15 people in the last three years.

Health and safety officials in Beijing, in the meantime, just raided a "recycled" chopsticks factory. It has been selling up to 100,000 pairs of used disposable bamboo chopsticks per day, without using any kind of disinfectant first.

In the United States, "My wife came back from Wal-Mart," writes a reader of my Whiskey & Gunpowder colleague Mike Shedlock's Global Economic Analysis, "complaining about her favorite major brand chicken breast patties going from 15 per pack about a year ago to 12 this winter to 10 per package at the same price recently."

Also here at Whiskey, Fred Sheehan notes the same trend — the trend of $1 buying less stuff with each day that passes. General Mills, the giant U.S. food maker behind Lucky Charms and Cheerios, warned back in March that "input costs" were due to rise. Now the Minneapolis Star Tribune reports, "Customers will actually see lower prices per box, but the cereal boxes will be smaller, so the effect is a price increase of a few percent."

This kind of creeping inflation — route No. 1 to giving you less stuff in return for each dollar, pound, euro, or yen that you spend — is nothing new, of course. On the shelves of the candy store just next-door to our offices here at BullionVault in London, the king-size Mars Bar ain't what it used to be. It ain't even what the standard Mars Bar used to be, either.

"Among the things money can't buy is what it used to," as Max Kauffman, the comedian, joked in the 1950s. But U.S. consumers have since lost their sense of humor. The dollar has dropped another 86% of its purchasing power since then.

So where next for the flight to safety? Here in the United Kingdom, and despite the pound sterling breaking back above $2 already this week, the cost of living has risen 30 times over since 1945.

Put another way, the pound — strongest of the world's five major currencies in 2007 — now buys only 3.3% of the "stuff" that it bought at the end of the World War II. With the U.K. money supply still growing by 13% year over year, the trade-off between quantity and quality has only become clearer.

Less stuff per pound or dollar is as plain a definition of inflation as you'll ever find. It works when prices rise — the common-or-garden use of the word — and it also works when rising prices are hidden by shrinking the size of what money buys.

In the inflation-crazed '70s, corporations "discovered that they could increase profits and expand market share by degrading their product, advertising relentlessly, packaging it in a different form, and raising its unit price," reports David Hackett Fisher in The Great Wave, his grand history of price revolutions across the last eight centuries. But less stuff per dollar wasn't just a corporate strategy. It became a necessity as input prices rose across manufacturing, home building, transport, and, most crucially, the consumer goods sector.

David Slawson, a U.S. economist, made a study of this "competitive inflation" in the price of chocolate bars. They rose sevenfold between the late 1950s-1983 in a series of small 5 cent increments. "Each increase was disguised by making the bar larger at the same time," he found, "the size of the bar having been gradually decreased since the time of the last price rise."

Fast-forward 25 years, and what price a midmorning Snickers as summer '07 drips through the guttering? The spot market in cocoa has taken a tumble so far this month, after forecasts of an oversized surplus in the 2007-2008 season. But the price of drinking a cup of tea in England rose by 5.5% in the year to July, according to the official government data.

At the sillier end of the hot beverages market, rising prices have finally forced me to swap my favorite cup of overpriced foam for an inferior bucket of what passes for coffee. The government's statisticians might call this "substitution" — and as I'm now getting more liquid for less money, they might call the net result a drop in my cost of living, too!

But mud-flavored water — like secondhand chopsticks, unwashed and resold — does not mean the value of the cash in my wallet has risen.

"Governments are often tempted to answer the cry for more purchasing power by simply creating more money," Jerry L. Jordan — a central banker, of all people — wrote in a recent issue of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis Review. "But in so doing, the opposite effect is achieved — the purchasing power of money is actually reduced."

"The result," Jordan continues, "is inflation: a rise in the number of dollars required to purchase a given standard of living."

Put another way, the current crisis in world investment markets will only increase the quantity of money — not its quality — even if fresh central bank lending somehow manages to bail out the world's biggest investment banks. (Bailing out U.S. homeowners, whether through a dramatic return to the "emergency" interest rates of 2003 or by creating new money — out of thin air — to refinance their mortgage debt, will do just the same.)

One defense that cash savers and hard-put investors might choose is gold bullion. No one's credit-backed promise, and impossible to create at will, gold remains as far from today's mountain of complex financial junk as an investor can get.

Regards,
Adrian Ash
BullionVault

U.S.D. R.I.P.
__________________


Not an Over The Counter PUB!
Shooterman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Trackpads Information
Click to Visit
Old 08-31-2007, 10:49   #2 (permalink)
Snake-eater
 
sfga6970's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Gold Staff Service Medal Silver Reputation  Medal 4 Blue Stars 3 Blue Stars Army Service Button Silver Community Medal Silver Threads Medal 
Total Awards: 7
My Mood
My Mood:
Status
sfga6970 is offline
Post Count
21,767
My Photos
My Photos: 30
Staff Title
Community DIV Commander
Member Flags
United States us new york
My Referrals
My Referrals: 0
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
sfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond repute
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 1,710,185.38
Bank: 0.00
Total T-Bucks: 1,710,185.38
     
  

 
Default Re: US Dollar, R.I.P.

I was a bullion trader for over 20 years and that article is no more than a veiled advertisement for people to buy gold or copper. I noticed that he mentioned the name of his company in the article and at the end in his signature line.

The world economies run in cycles and always will. When Carter was President the US economy went into the crapper and short term rates went to around 18%. Gold was touted by everyone and investors were recommended to buy it. Gold went up to near $1,000 and people were sucked in. as the cycle changed it went to under $300 and a lot of people were burned. The British Pound went from $2.50 to $1.00 and now we are in the midst of a new cycle. This will continue after we are long gone.

When the rates were so high, I bought my house because higher rates mean lower prices for housing, as we can see in today's market, it's a buyers market not a sellers market. As that market cycle reversed I refinanced my house at a 6% lower rate, took out $50,000 dollars in cash and still had a lower payment each month than I had before. Just to show you the impact, the house I bought had been put on the market for $150,000 and I bought it for $68,500 during the decline. When I refinanced, it was valued at $170,000.
__________________
De Oppresso Liber.

"You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.” — Winston Churchill
sfga6970 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2007, 10:07   #3 (permalink)
Junior Officer
 
redtanker's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Silver Reputation  Medal Silver Commanders Coin Army Service Button Bronze Community Medal Bronze Threads Medal 
Total Awards: 5
My Mood
My Mood:
Status
redtanker is offline
Post Count
3,141
My Photos
My Photos: 0
Member Flags
United States us kentucky
My Referrals
My Referrals: 2
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
redtanker has much to be proud ofredtanker has much to be proud ofredtanker has much to be proud ofredtanker has much to be proud ofredtanker has much to be proud ofredtanker has much to be proud ofredtanker has much to be proud ofredtanker has much to be proud ofredtanker has much to be proud ofredtanker has much to be proud ofredtanker has much to be proud of
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 159.19
Bank: 67,466.32
Total T-Bucks: 67,625.51
  

 
Default Re: US Dollar, R.I.P.

very cool info and interesting post
thank you
redtanker is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2007, 11:10   #4 (permalink)
Non-Commissioned Officer
 
m60-gunner's Avatar
My Awards Rack
2 Blue Star Army Service Button 
Total Awards: 2
My Mood
Status
m60-gunner is offline
Post Count
789
My Photos
My Photos: 0
Staff Title
Trivia Game Coordinator
Member Flags
United States us iowa
My Referrals
My Referrals: 0
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
m60-gunner is a splendid one to beholdm60-gunner is a splendid one to beholdm60-gunner is a splendid one to beholdm60-gunner is a splendid one to beholdm60-gunner is a splendid one to beholdm60-gunner is a splendid one to beholdm60-gunner is a splendid one to beholdm60-gunner is a splendid one to beholdm60-gunner is a splendid one to beholdm60-gunner is a splendid one to beholdm60-gunner is a splendid one to behold
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 557.30
Bank: 0.00
Total T-Bucks: 557.30

 
Default Re: US Dollar, R.I.P.

The copper thing hits home to me. I find, locate, and mark Veterans graves with the apropeite flag markers in all the rural Cemetarys in my area. Over the last 3 or 4 years they have been dissapearing at a alarming rate. They cost me a minimum $15 a piece. Recentley after taking some scrap metal to the scrap yard I discovered about 50 of them in a pile. From the War of 1812 to Vietnam.
I pay for these out of my own pocket. I wish I could catch the little bas%#@ds doing this.
__________________
Fear God, Tell the Truth, and Make Money


Don't be to optimistic. The light at the end of the tunnel might be a train!

Remember only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom. [Tony Blair]
m60-gunner is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2007, 11:54   #5 (permalink)
Junior Officer
 
Shooterman's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Silver Reputation  Medal Army Service Button Bronze Community Medal 
Total Awards: 3
My Mood
Status
Shooterman is offline
Post Count
2,786
My Photos
My Photos: 0
Member Flags
United States
My Referrals
My Referrals: 3
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
Shooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to behold
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 33,922.23
Bank: 0.00
Total T-Bucks: 33,922.23
 

 
Default Re: US Dollar, R.I.P.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfga6970 View Post
I was a bullion trader for over 20 years and that article is no more than a veiled advertisement for people to buy gold or copper. I noticed that he mentioned the name of his company in the article and at the end in his signature line.
Granted. Does that detract from the truthfulness of what is being said? I understand he has to shill for his personal gain. There are high priced shills touting the market everyday trying to sucker in the little man. I usually ignore the touting, and pay more attention to what is being said.

[quoting]The world economies run in cycles and always will. When Carter was President the US economy went into the crapper and short term rates went to around 18%. Gold was touted by everyone and investors were recommended to buy it. Gold went up to near $1,000 and people were sucked in. as the cycle changed it went to under $300 and a lot of people were burned. The British Pound went from $2.50 to $1.00 and now we are in the midst of a new cycle. This will continue after we are long gone. [/quote]

Carter was an inept fool. Of that there is little doubt, but the economy also suffered from the effects of Nixon killing Bretton Woods and taking us off the gold standard all together

Quote:
When the rates were so high, I bought my house because higher rates mean lower prices for housing, as we can see in today's market, it's a buyers market not a sellers market. As that market cycle reversed I refinanced my house at a 6% lower rate, took out $50,000 dollars in cash and still had a lower payment each month than I had before. Just to show you the impact, the house I bought had been put on the market for $150,000 and I bought it for $68,500 during the decline. When I refinanced, it was valued at $170,000.
You are basically saying you had the wherewithal to withstand the high rates, and was astute enough to play the system. More power to you, but the average Joe Scmuck, greedy little bustard he is, is not that smart or discerning to recognize that a deal that seems too good to be true, usually is. Mr Greensleeves, dropped the rates to 1%, and the spiel after 9-11 was to buy, buy, buy. Let the Islamofacist Nuts know they can not take us down by hitting our financial centers.

Now we are in an economy based on debt, fueled by increasing liquidity funneled into it by a FED that gets fat on the interest it charges us for fake money. As Murray Rothbard said we have a Crack Up Boom. ( very similar to a woman flying an airplane upside down and attempting to land )

It appears the crunch has been, or will be triggered by increasing demands on a finite amount of cheap crude oil. Meanwhile, the children we send to DC are more concerned with 'I gotcha' politics than solving our problems. Mr Bush says he will save the poor homeowners ( not a bail out though ) and the FED says it will do whatever is necessary to keep the money and credit coming. Uh-huh!

The best the PUBS can hope for, in my opinion, is for the final Crack Up Boom to take place on Lady Hillary's watch.
__________________


Not an Over The Counter PUB!
Shooterman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2007, 16:43   #6 (permalink)
Snake-eater
 
sfga6970's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Gold Staff Service Medal Silver Reputation  Medal 4 Blue Stars 3 Blue Stars Army Service Button Silver Community Medal Silver Threads Medal 
Total Awards: 7
My Mood
My Mood:
Status
sfga6970 is offline
Post Count
21,767
My Photos
My Photos: 30
Staff Title
Community DIV Commander
Member Flags
United States us new york
My Referrals
My Referrals: 0
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
sfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond reputesfga6970 has a reputation beyond repute
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 1,710,185.38
Bank: 0.00
Total T-Bucks: 1,710,185.38
     
  

 
Default Re: US Dollar, R.I.P.

When I was the retail gold trader for Shearson, I helped to develop and implement a metals accumulation plan that worked out very well for our investors. They would commit to buying a fixed dollar amount of gold each month from their account. The first Wednesday of each month, I would buy gold on the second London fixing price and then the system would allocate the gold to each account based on the amount invested. This took the decision making out of the hands of the investor. Since it was based on a fixed dollar amount the average cost per ounce was always lower than the average price per ounce and the investor could liquidate his/her position any time they wished. As an example, If he committed $1,000 per month the purchase at a $500 price would buy two ounces and at $1,000 only one ounce. He then had an average price of $750 dollars but an average cost of $660 per ounce. It worked out very well for most investors, they didn't have to worry about the twists and turns in the market.
__________________
De Oppresso Liber.

"You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.” — Winston Churchill
sfga6970 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2007, 18:18   #7 (permalink)
Junior Officer
 
Shooterman's Avatar
My Awards Rack
Silver Reputation  Medal Army Service Button Bronze Community Medal 
Total Awards: 3
My Mood
Status
Shooterman is offline
Post Count
2,786
My Photos
My Photos: 0
Member Flags
United States
My Referrals
My Referrals: 3
Personal Guestbook
Reputation +/-
Shooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to beholdShooterman is a splendid one to behold
Other Swag
T-Bucks: 33,922.23
Bank: 0.00
Total T-Bucks: 33,922.23
 

 
Default Re: US Dollar, R.I.P.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfga6970 View Post
When I was the retail gold trader for Shearson, I helped to develop and implement a metals accumulation plan that worked out very well for our investors. They would commit to buying a fixed dollar amount of gold each month from their account. The first Wednesday of each month, I would buy gold on the second London fixing price and then the system would allocate the gold to each account based on the amount invested. This took the decision making out of the hands of the investor. Since it was based on a fixed dollar amount the average cost per ounce was always lower than the average price per ounce and the investor could liquidate his/her position any time they wished. As an example, If he committed $1,000 per month the purchase at a $500 price would buy two ounces and at $1,000 only one ounce. He then had an average price of $750 dollars but an average cost of $660 per ounce. It worked out very well for most investors, they didn't have to worry about the twists and turns in the market.
Sounds like a pretty good way to buy gold. There are a few 'gold banks' now that sell it by the gram price. They treat it just as money, and will store it for you.

The market does seem to be building again, especially with the market as volatile as it's been.

I do not believe we can continue down this trail we're running right now, but time will tell.
__________________


Not an Over The Counter PUB!
Shooterman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
More Dollar Doom! Shooterman Point/Counterpoint 4 12-17-2007 20:24
Dollar Sinks to New Low on FED Speculation. Shooterman Point/Counterpoint 10 10-28-2007 08:27
The Dying Dollar? Shooterman Point/Counterpoint 0 12-22-2006 14:32
The Dollar and the Euro! Shooterman Point/Counterpoint 2 10-26-2006 16:56
Debt and the dollar JohnRN Chit-Chat 8 07-09-2006 05:10


Community Information
Options