There is a difference between military men and women

[Snowden]

There is a difference between military men and women
By Kathryn Lopez

During a recent Democratic debate, both Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama indicated that all female U.S. citizens should register for the Selective Service. Neither candidate was as ridiculous as former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel, who said, when it comes to men and women being drafted, "What's the difference?" But the radical and dangerous implications of the front-runners' policies are not that far from Gravel's query.

The attitude the Democrats have on this issue has already caused harm to the military. Elaine Donnelly, president of the Center for Military Readiness, has been watching the feminization of military-personnel policy for decades. In an article for The Duke Journal of Gender Law & Policy, she explains that "gender-integrated basic training is based on the unrealistic assumption that men and women are interchangeable in all military roles. The concept tries to circumvent or disguise physical differences with gender-normed training standards that reward equal effort rather than equal results."

Yes, there are differences between genders, Mr. Gravel. According to one of Donnelly's many examples of the different scoring of supposed equals: The Navy has male trainees do a minimum of 42 push-ups for a minimum score; women must do 17. Men (ages 20 to 24) must swim 500 yards in 12 minutes, 15 seconds; women (ages 20 to 24) get 14 minutes to accomplish the same.

The radicalism of the Democrats' desire to have women in the military can be seen with a look to the legal system. In 1981, the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the male-only requirement for Selective Service registration, reasoning that the whole point "was to prepare for a draft of combat troops."

Women are currently banned from combat. If we needed to draft Americans, would Clinton require women to sign up for the Selective Service in preparation for mandatory combat duty? Would you conscript America's daughters? That's the sad direction we've been heading in.

Under the Clinton administration, a Pentagon "risk rule" was eliminated, opening 80 percent of all American military jobs to women. That risk rule, prior to its repeal, prevented women from being assigned to units that posed a risk of attack or capture — a rule that would have spared the life of supply clerk Lori Piestewa, a 24-year-old single mother of two (now 5 and 6). Piestewa's brother told a reporter that Lori felt that "she wasn't going to be anywhere near any type of dangerous situation."

But according to Air Force Brig. Gen. Wilma L. Vaught, it was some kind of feminist victory that she was. "There's been an acceptance of the fact that women ... are in harm's way and they are being killed," she says. "That is defining to me," said Vaught. Well, it isn't defining to me and shouldn't be to any rational-thinking human.
Sen. James Webb, D-Va., would be doing his nation a service if he made his rational view of women's role in the military his pet cause. I don't agree with Webb on everything, but the senator has written at length about the fundamental flaws with the military treating men and women the same. If he called Donnelly to the Senate and had her suggest recommendations for treating men and women differently in the interest of the safety of our troops, maybe we would realize that we shouldn't be drafting women: We should be drafting a realistic vision of women's role in the armed forces — one acknowledging real and natural differences.

Kathryn Lopez

[las47032]

There is a difference between military men and women

Conforming to military regulations, military women should not be direct combat. The long hot and heavy contentious debate whether or not women should be permitted front line roles is frequently clouded in this lopsided battlefield, the war on terror in spite some people think that phrase is a slogan.

No matter how anybody thinks about women involvement on the front line, military women have shown courage surpassing gender. Women in the military whenever placed in dangerous circumstances of conflict, women are capable of concentrating and sharpening their skills to their level best.

Too dainty? News flash! Women in the military CAN HACK IT!

Female soldiers have long rebuffed percepts their bodies are not strong enough to manage harshness of boot camp and war. Their predecessors have proven that fact.

Contributions of women during the American Revolutionary and Civil War, World War I and World War II

During the Revolutionary and Civil War women have been on the battlefront disguised as men.

Women's History Collections at THE LIZ LIBRARY: Women's Military History

Women in the American Revolution

Women and the American Revolution - Female Soldiers - Roles of Women


Clad in Uniform

Buffalo Soldiers - Cathay Williams, Female Buffalo Soldier. Famous African American Woman in History.

Female Buffalo Soldier Lived Life of Excitement, Inspiration - Cathay Williams

Civil War Women

Prologue - page has moved -- please update your bookmarks

They also served in other capacities such as spies. About.com: http://www.undelete.org/spies.html Women's History Collections at THE LIZ LIBRARY: Women's Military History Famous Women Spies - History Celebrities Women's History Collections at THE LIZ LIBRARY: Women's Military History http://civilwarmini.com/chapi.htm About.com: http://www.undelete.org/spies.html Women's History Collections at THE LIZ LIBRARY: Women's Military History and some were prisoners. Women's History Collections at THE LIZ LIBRARY: Women's Military History


Died in the line of duty. Women in the military casualties. Women's History Collections at THE LIZ LIBRARY: Women's Military History The Women Who Gave Their Lives American Women in Uniform, Veterans Too!

Tribute

The Virtual Wall ® American Women Who Died in the Vietnam War


World War I
Thirty Thousand Women Were There Women in World War One

WWI Signal Corps Women WWI Signal Corps Women

First World War Women at War First World War: Women at War


World War II
Women in World War II Women in World War II

Women and World War II - Female Soldiers - Roles of Women - Home Front - Concentration Camps

Women in World War II

During World War II WAC basic training was the same as the men. Shirley Luckens
shirley_luckens


Korea
url=http://korea50.army.mil/history/factsheets/women.shtml]Women in the Korean War[/url]

Vietnam Veterans

Women in the Korean Conflict

Women in the U.S. Army

Vietnam
Military Women in Vietnam

Many Women Served in Vietnam

Forgotten Veterans: U.S. Women in Vietnam


Iraq
Few examples women can cut the mustard.

Pfc. Jessica Lynn Nicholson awarded Army Commendation medal for valor and courage.

Pfc. Nicholson First Armored Division with Headquarters and Headquarters Company, assigned to 40th Engineer Battalion, 2nd Brigade, Division Engineers.

November 2003 PFC Nicholson restrained an Iraq man trying to transport a grenade through her checkpoint, he was going to use it to kill American soldiers.

After he was subdued, the man began to cry and somebody commented he could have been abashed since it's a disgrace for an Iraq man to be beaten up by a woman.

Her determinative conduct kept the enemy from presenting a danger to her comrades.

She named her weapon Camille.
DefendAmerica News - Profile Article
BLACKFIVE: PFC Jessica Lynn Nicholson - Someone You Should Know
Women In Military Service For America Memorial


Woman awarded Silver Star since World War II Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester
March 20, 2005. 4th Platoon, 617th MP Co., 503rd MP Battalion, 18th MP Brigade, ten National Guard soldiers in an armored Humvees providing support to a coalition truck (supply) convoy were bushwhacked by insurgents around 18 miles southeast of Baghdad. Sgt. Hester and her squad were involved in a most furious firefight driving back a guerrilla attack

Team leader Hester flanked the enemy by directed the squad straightforward the kill zone, breaking up the insurgents way to escape by assaulting a trench line using grenades and M203 grenade-launcher rounds. Sgt. Hester and squad leader Staff Sgt. Timothy Nein cleared out two trenches while Hester killed three insurgents with her M4 assault rifle.

After the skirmish was over, the unit killed 27 insurgents were dead, six were wounded, and one was captured.

Other recipients were Staff Sergeant Timothy Nein Silver Star later upgraded to Distinguished Service Cross. Combat medic Spc. Jason Mike awarded Silver Star, as well as other members received awards.
16 June05 awarded medals at Camp Liberty.
The unit is headquartered in Richmond, Kentucky.
Military woman receives Silver Star
ABC News: Small Guard Unit Fends Off Dozens of Iraqi Insurgents
DefenseLink News Article: Woman Soldier Receives Silver Star for Valor in Iraq
Argghhh! The Home Of Two Of Jonah's Military Guys..
Leigh Ann Hester - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
YouTube - Faces of Courge Leigh Ann Hester
YouTube - Faces of Courge: Leigh Ann Hester


Army Airborne Capt. Kellie McCoy awarded Bronze Star with "V" device
18 September 2003, Fallujah, 1996 West Point graduate Capt. McCoy’s was ambushed outside Fallujah. Showing bravery and leadership, under fire, she kept a cool head shooting at the enemy she gathered her troops while eliminating two of the enemies.
American Women in Uniform, Veterans Too!
page 9
Something... and Half of Something: December 2004 Archives
Women at war


Recipient of Distinguished Flying Cross Chief Warrant Officer 3 Lori Hill
Iraq. 26 October 2006, Kiowa Warrior reconnaissance/attack helicopter pilot Chief Warrant Officer 3 Lori Hill 2nd Squadron, 17th Cavalry Regiment.

Lead helicopter was hit by heavy fire and CWO3 Hill simultaneously attacked fire from the chopper while supplying covering fire for the troops involved in battle with the enemy.

Her helicopter was hit by rocket-propelled grenade impairing the helo’s instruments. Rather than centering her attention on her plight, she set up transmission with ground forces and kept on furnishing air support until they got to a safe place.

Meantime, she focuses her attention on the damaged chopper. The air craft was losing hydraulic power. The helo encountered machine gun fire. A shot hit one of Hill’s ankles. Yet, in spite of her injury, Hill was able to land the crippled helicopter at Forward Operating Base Normand bringing to safety the crew and chopper. CWO3 Hill was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross by Vice President Cheney at Ft. Campbell, KY on 16 October 06
Soldier Stories
Distinguished Flying Cross

Meanwhile, whether or not women should be on the battlefield beside the point whenever attacked by rabid Islamofascist in Iraq. While bullets and rockets are slamming into colleagues and underlings, bravery and unselfish duty are called on. Provided America has servicemen and women who proficiently carry out their jobs in overpowering way, we recognize to the fullest extent every support required for conquering the Islamofascists in this battle against terrorists, the radicals scheming to decimate our nation American life style.

Women joined the military. It’s not a sewing circle or the Girl Scouts. They trained as troops, not a ballet troupe. The servicewomen combat support MOSs knew they would end up in harms in Iraq and they are serving self-respect and with pride. They have done their jobs well, and there have been casualties and injuries in and near hostile areas. No debate. Case closed. Get used to it. Putting military women back to a previous state is not an option!

However, it is not the time to champion getting red of women from combat support MOS or particular roles in the military. It is not the time to publicly condemn openly letting women to have combat support jobs, as well as manipulating and exploiting the matter of deaths and POW/MIA. Low-down and dirty. Verbally assaulting, military women with discriminatory, calumnious yammering, talking heads, pundits, so-called military experts, print media and the broadcast media exploiting and manipulating to suit their motivations and agenda riding the coattail of military women and their achievements as well as heroines, the women who have given the ultimate sacrifice during peacetime and in Iraq, it is a cheap shot, debasement and affront to today’s military women serving with dignity, honor and admirably and to women veterans.

Throughout the years and today military women have proven and demonstrated they are more than capable of serving during time of war and peacetime. But it doesn’t stop Donnelly, the harpies, like-minded people acting against of women against women being anywhere near combat area as well as combat support roles and related MOS. The shrews have made known heaving their harangue. Stretching out their claws and racheting up their hot air, claptrap.

Women not able to meet the required physical standards and other criteria, as well as other justifications why military women should not be permitted certain MOS, and the so-called feminization of the armed forces, and co-ed training Donnelly and her kind CAN PUT IT IN THEIR PIPIE AND SMOKE IT!!!!

Chauvinistic ultra conservative Donnelly president of Center for Military Readiness Center for Military Readiness +++ Principles was never in the military, and she has no idea what life is like for military women in spite of her tenure on DACOWITS WorldNetDaily Speaker's Bureau - Elaine Donnelly Center for Military Readiness +++ Elaine Donnelly's Bio and she doesn’t want to hear, see or know the reality of war and she makes decisions founded on negative knowledge and experiences. She needs to acquire other pursuits and STFU!

Donnelly and others who have never served, they are always playing the crying game, the hackneyed, ad nauseam women in combat issue, and the physical criterion’s assertion. Reduced physical training criteria for women because they are considered too weak. Being a skillful soldier doesn't encompass the ability to do x number of pushups.

Besides Donnelly and the rest of the battle-axes creeping out from their pharisaical, exploiting rock, the shrews, and the like-minded ilk have begun their spurious crusade against "equal opportunity" for military women. Most of the people who carp never served bloviating and fulminating against today’s military women and the critics don’t waste anytime taking advantage, manipulating to their advantage spreading falsehoods, willful perversion of facts and fish story in the pretense of caring or giving a damn for military women. Hiding behind the guise, will the military celebrate and have the audacity to Mother's Day, what kind of nation deploys women and/or mothers to war and combat, whenever mom wears combat boots is she able to fight and take a bullet like a man, and should they be placed in a risky position or danger?

Once again Donnelly’s cause is to keep women in the military out of any job placing women on the field of battle forces women backwards to the 1950's. Mrs. Cleaver of "Leave It To Beaver" tv series and back in the kitchen.




Rather than making life easier, she is causing women in the military to move back in time, as well as costing women jobs because occupations would be eliminated due to the combat exclusion law.

Use any search engine, look up Donnelly and you’ll see she has a one-track mind. Women in combat, and you'll hardly see anything postive or the accomplishments military women have made through the years and today.

Do not lower requirements for women. They perform their duties100% or they don’t. There are vital support positions for individuals who can’t adapt or have the physical stature or strength for font line duties.

Donnelly and her never end crusade and favorite topic women in cobmat.

Women soldiers the reason why Bin Laden escaped?
Fox News’ Megan Kendal interviewed Col David Hunt and Elaine Donnelly. She believes Bin Laden could have been captured had women were not on the field of battle. Donnelly contends the crucial beginning stage of the war, shortly after 9/11, there was reluctance in going after Bin Laden on the account there were women in combat support units designated to the front line.

However Donnelly faults the people who set a plan carried out by the government (in this case the military) started to train women in units they are not qualified for. Consequently the policy created difficulty or a bad situation. Immediately following 9/11 a strategy, there was an attempt to send new intelligence units to Afghanistan. But these units were not competently prepared to be deployed but policy-makers thought about sending units on a tracking basis. Going into caves and mountains in Afghanistan. But somebody informed the Pentagon strategists women were being trained in these units. A shocking surprise. How did women end up in these units?! It’s against regulations, so the units were held up for more than a year. Donnelly said she doesn’t know whether the unit would have aided in apprehending Bin Laden.

Same package different bow. Recon units, RSTA squadrons, violation combat exclusion policy, her source of information, why she didn’t go public. Source: Insider Report: Did Female Warriors Cause Bin Laden Escape? Insider Report: Did Female Warriors Cause Bin Laden Escape?
The Col. Hunt adds his two cents, handing Donnelly her a$$. He doesn’t believe Donnelly’s reason why the terrorist leader wasn’t caught, and he thought the issue was confronted squarely. Col. Hunt mentioned 40 women who died in the line of duty in Iraq in 2005. There were everywhere on the battlefield. They flew helicopters and drove trucks. He believes it is an urban legend to imply there was a ground surveillance unit and he thinks Donnelly was talking about. The plan to send an intelligence unit to Afghanistan, it wasn’t a good idea to execute the plan in a year in a place they desired, and not deploying the unit didn’t have anything to do with women. It had to do with fitness and proficiency. And if anybody makes the determination not to dispatch a unit because there are women in it that general needs to be pink-slipped, because it’s a dumb conclusion. Women are needed in all aspects of this war on terrorism, and not faulting them for in catching Bin Laden.

Donnelly counters by saying he wasn’t at that place when this happened. A handful few people had knowledge of what occurred. Col. Hunt comes back with the urban legend remark. (Oh, like she was?! Perhaps she should give a detailed account since Donnelly acts like she knows it all as though she was there.) Col. Hunt comes back with the urban legend remark.

Then Donnelly asserts she did not publicize her knowledge because there was armed conflict taking place. Then she brings up her favorite subject. The subject of women in ground combat. She feels it is an important matter American needs to debate. Col. Hunt counters, she is side stepping the issue about not being able to get Bin laden.

Donnelly’s proof is the unsuccessful attempt in nabbing Bin Laden she said an informant close to the secretary of the Army in 2001, told her, and Donnelly personally conveyed the information to Deputy Secretary of Defense Wolfowitz. A couple of days following her talk with Wolfowitz she was informed her information was accurate, and within 14 days the matter was rectified.

She’s still dodging the Tora Bora issue. When Megan Kendall mentioned the problem as stated by Donnelly women were in the support unit, the one backing the recon team being sent to Tora Bora, and since women were in that particular unit, it wasn’t sent as frontlines unit.

Donnelly stick stuck on her pet topic, her agenda said there are regulations and the dictates are not complying.

Donnelly further mentioned if women are going to be involved in ground combat or units jointly locating with ground combat. Co-locating units should be done in agreement with regulations and Congress has to be informed before hand. No apprizing Congress is an infraction of the rules because they were not notified. A co-location of units is occurring again.
Col. Hunt counters the Tora Bora argument, again uses the myth rebuttal, and the trouble with Tora Bora and Bin Laden had nothing to do with women. The problem was Special Forces and infantry was not placed in the passes, and that conclusion Gen. Franks defended because he did not want to put to put the troops at risk. Had nothing to do with women. Again he mentions the number of women killed in Iraq, and they are driving trucks 300 miles from Kuwait to Baghdad, piloting choppers, and military police. It is a lop sided battlefield, and the servicewomen can be killed anywhere. The Bin Laden Tora Bora is no more an issue. But to insinuate Bin Laden wasn’t caught due to various regulation is spurious.

Donnelly and Col. Hunt to go round and round, and she thinks Col Hunt has no clue what he is talking about because of his Special Forces history and he doesn’t know the status of the regulations involving women in the military. He retorts saying he has commanded women and he’s been in combat.

Johnny one note still fixated on women in combat, Donnelly said they were discussing infantry and Army, and being in danger, everyone is at risk on the frontlines. And she esteems and prizes military women. Gee, that’s funny, could have fooled me.

Col. Hunt replies has a problem. She doesn’t want women in the military. Right on and high five!

Still, Donnelly won’t let go. There isn’t any need for demographics and the military necesstaing in violating existing regulations. The Army finding a new rule, co-location, only applied when combat unit is relly carrying out a mission.

Col Hunt tells Donnelly she’s recreating history, and she is articulating Bin Laden escaped because of women, and that isn’t the case.

Source: 'It Doesn't Matter How You Go to the Bathroom'

Note: Donnelly managed to remove women from RSTA.
Concerned Women for America - Women Removed From Army RSTA Squadrons
Bush Says No To Women In Land Combat; Yes To Women Flying Fighters, Choppers
NucNews - May 30, 2002

Our War

I don’t go off to war, so they say,
I’m a woman.

Who then has worn my boots?
And whose memories are these,
of youth’s suffering?

I’m a woman and I’ve tasted man’s war.
Our war.
And he knows that I love in no greater way
than to share in his life or his death.

What are the rules?
Man or woman,
we are prey to suffer and survive together.

Please don’t forget me.
I’ve been through war’s hell and if only you will listen,
I’ve a story of those chosen to sacrifice for us all.

By Diane Carlson Evans
Army nurse, 36th Evacuation Hospital in Vung Tau and at Pleiku in the 71st Evacuation Hospital
Vietnam 1968-69 Diane Carlson Evans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Our War

[milmor_1]

Congratulations on a well researched rebuttal.

I have personal experience of serving in the military with women. To be honest somedont make the the grade, (most do) but then lately they are a lot of males who dont make the grade either.

In my humble opinion if a woman has the courage and the wish to serve she should NOT be denied that right.

As your excellent research shows, women can make a difference.

[Snowden]

Women make a difference in all sides of life. We're supposed to make a difference, after all.

The tradition of the woman staying behind is based on somebody being there for the next generation. We give birth to it and are expected to train and care for those children. Those women who prefer to go in the military service certainly have that right and ability, but those who prefer to raise the children they give birth to also have the right and ability.

That's not so different from being a father with the same on-going responsibilities, but the childrlen should certainly have one or the other whenever possible.

[Old Fart]

Oh good grief!, I think that there just might be enough women left over who have no intentions of joining the military to propigate the species
and as for those who do join and have military husbands and children, that's a family matter that they and they alone will deal with!

You know, this subject has been ground up and spit out in every site on the Internet that I subscribe to.
Bottom line, women ARE in the military and they have been involved directly in combat since the beginning of time and just as men, some perform well some do not.
Iraq is the face of the 21st century war, there are no "front lines" anybody who ends up doing any kind of "job" in a war zone faces the posibility of direct combat and that's just the way it is!

I was USAF C-130 ground crew in Viet Nam and stationed at Tan Son Nhut the biggest (and safest) base in the country, which was a good thing for a "mechanic" like me cause I barely knew which side of an M-16 you put the clip in. Fortunately for me (and those around me) I never fired a shot in anger.
There are women in the Iraq war that are far more qualified for "combat" than I was!
Let's just drop this before it turns into another 25 pages of "women can't carry a 150 lb pack for 5 miles in the desert" garbage.
Lee Ann (las47032) is no frail little twig of a woman and NOT the type to go "EEK! " and run into the bathroom when faced with danger.
I know for a gospel fact that I DON'T want to be on the bullet end of a gun that she's holding!
There are plenty of women that have chosen to go in the military that are at least as well qualified as she was to do their job AND more if called upon to to do more.

Dennis
(Lee Ann's old man)