Issue that goes to the heart of our differences with America

[milmor_1]

Issue that goes to the heart of our differences with America
By Michael McCarthy
Published: 16 April 2007

We are blasé about abortion in Britain; opposition to it is as muted as is the support for it (which is why we are running out of doctors prepared to carry it out). It is merely an unexceptionable part of the fabric of society.

Contrast us with the United States, where the issue splits the nation, and each side gives itself a powerful, emotive label: one is Pro-Choice, the other is Pro-Life. Early termination has an infinitely greater social, religious and indeed political resonance In the Land of the Free than it does here.

Why? The reasons go the heart of our differences as countries. For Americans, the issue encapsulates a major fault line in their society: the one that opened up in the 1960s, between freedom and authority. On one side is the heady freedom from age-old social constraints that the Sixties brought in - especially sexual freedom, and in particular, sexual freedom for women. America was the birthplace of modern feminism, and one of feminism's central tenets is a woman's right to choose what she does with her body. The contraceptive pill, and legalised abortion, were the means to this end.

But on the other side of the divide is the old attitude that has never accepted abortion as a woman's right, or as a justified act. And what lies behind this, and keeps it alive, is religion.

Many British people probably have no concept of just how religious American society is, and how distinct that makes Americans from us. We speak the same language, eat the same food, take part in the same wars; but on Sundays, we do things differently. According to Gallup, 98 per cent of Americans believe in God, and 73 per cent believe in life after death (compared to 38 per cent in Britain); even more strikingly, 40 per cent are regular churchgoers. Every Sunday, 120 million Americans make the effort to worship in Christian churches, the wealthy, the middle-class, the poor.

That is not to say, of course, that the Catholic church has not tried to stem the tide of pro-choice legislation in Britain. Last year it threw its weight behind efforts to pressure the government into changing abortion laws, claiming that public opinion had shifted after ultrasound images were published showing striking details of foetuses seeming to "walk" in the womb. Cardinal Cormac Murphy- O'Connor, leader of the church in England and Wales, lobbied the Health Secretary, Patricia Hewitt, for a review of laws which set the limit for termination at 24 weeks. "What has happened is that there has been a quite considerable change in public opinion, especially after those photographs," he said. "That has touched a lot of people's hearts."

Although the attempts to cut the age limit came to nothing he may, in light of the looming abortion crisis, have had a point, though not quite the one he intended. There does seem to have been a gradual, almost imperceptible change in public opinion - not because so many people have been converted to the pro-life cause, but because many seem to have taken the pro-choice cause for granted.

Complacency can kill off any campaign, however passionately it is taken up. No doubt the women who fought with such fervour to achieve the 1967 Abortion Act and those who continued the battle through the Seventies and Eighties until the word "termination" lost much of its stigma would be aghast at the way in which their hard-won gains have been squandered.

What do we fight our battles over in 21st century Britain? Only the extreme end of the animal rights movement seem to involve such a strong element of passion. Many Americans looked on bewildered at the amount of time and energy spent on banning foxhunting in Britain, just as we look on assassinations of American abortion doctors as something entirely outside our experience.

There's the difference between us. America is a society based on religion, where half the nation has not accepted legalised abortion. Ever since the historic Supreme Court decision of Roe versus Wade made abortion (up to three months) a constitutional right in 1973, much of this vast body of religious opinion has fought back, firmly believing that killing a living human foetus is prohibited by God. Sometimes the fight has been violent, and gone beyond demonstrations outside clinics; the phenomenon of "Pro-Life murder" has seen several abortion doctors and clinic workers killed by gunmen or bombers.

We in Britain, meanwhile, have lost our religion, and acquiesce entirely placidly in all the liberations of the Sixties and Seventies, although as a society based on class, many of us can still get very worked up at the prospect of a toff on a horse.

Issue that goes to the heart of our differences with America - Independent Online Edition > Health Medical

[Woodmonkey]

There's the difference between us. America is a society based on religion, where half the nation has not accepted legalised abortion. Ever since the historic Supreme Court decision of Roe versus Wade made abortion (up to three months) a constitutional right in 1973, much of this vast body of religious opinion has fought back, firmly believing that killing a living human foetus is prohibited by God. Sometimes the fight has been violent, and gone beyond demonstrations outside clinics; the phenomenon of "Pro-Life murder" has seen several abortion doctors and clinic workers killed by gunmen or bombers.

There is a separation of state and religion in our country which has worked well even thought there are religious differences in people. These differences show up in abortion, where even Christians disagree, as well as evolution, where some would succeed in forcing their beliefs on the rest of us if it were not for that separation of church and state.

Our Supreme Court just upheld the right of the states to ban partial birth abortions - Court Backs Ban on Late-Term Abortion Procedure

[Caldric]

Originally Posted by milmor_1

Issue that goes to the heart of our differences with America
By Michael McCarthy
Published: 16 April 2007

We are blasé about abortion in Britain; opposition to it is as muted as is the support for it (which is why we are running out of doctors prepared to carry it out). It is merely an unexceptionable part of the fabric of society.

Contrast us with the United States, where the issue splits the nation, and each side gives itself a powerful, emotive label: one is Pro-Choice, the other is Pro-Life. Early termination has an infinitely greater social, religious and indeed political resonance In the Land of the Free than it does here.

Yes we have major differences with Europe which only become more apparent as their propaganda as "US is the EVIL in the world" is propagated by your radical left and is absorbed by society as a whole in Europe. In fact they think of us as backwards barbaric society. Sugar coat as they will the fact remains. Although we have an ugly history Europe has a history we wanted nothing to do with.

Why? The reasons go the heart of our differences as countries. For Americans, the issue encapsulates a major fault line in their society: the one that opened up in the 1960s, between freedom and authority. On one side is the heady freedom from age-old social constraints that the Sixties brought in - especially sexual freedom, and in particular, sexual freedom for women. America was the birthplace of modern feminism, and one of feminism's central tenets is a woman's right to choose what she does with her body. The contraceptive pill, and legalised abortion, were the means to this end

But on the other side of the divide is the old attitude that has never accepted abortion as a woman's right, or as a justified act. And what lies behind this, and keeps it alive, is religion.

That is half truth. I have no religion yet I think sucking the brain out of a child ready for birth not only murder but barbaric. Thankfully the United States Supreme Court agree's with me. I have little issue with abortion at the early stages or using embryotic cells for research since they will be washed down a drain.

This is far from just a religious issue it is also a moral issue something Europeans seemed to have forgotten unless your masters tell you otherwise.

However there is a point when we must say enough is enough and to pretend that late term abortion is acceptable goes against the laws of man not religion. Might as well hit a new born baby in the head with a hammer and pour its brains out then to call it "medical" reasons but the actual truth is they were too stupid to close their legs or just decided "hey piss on this child I don't want the burden!". Well I will take the burden even if I live poor.

Why? Because C-section is a viable option and sorry for all those models out there but your little scar is worth human life and once a child has thought he is human and to exterminate them is wrong and criminal as the USSC agrees with me.

Many British people probably have no concept of just how religious American society is, and how distinct that makes Americans from us. We speak the same language, eat the same food, take part in the same wars; but on Sundays, we do things differently. According to Gallup, 98 per cent of Americans believe in God, and 73 per cent believe in life after death (compared to 38 per cent in Britain); even more strikingly, 40 per cent are regular churchgoers. Every Sunday, 120 million Americans make the effort to worship in Christian churches, the wealthy, the middle-class, the poor.

Many British people besides their excellent education think we are all religious nutjobs and right wing radicals.

Also there is nothing wrong with those 120 million people who follow God with fervor.

What people don't understand is we don't live according to British or European standards. We think you are weak and limped wrist. Those 120 million Christians will fight and die for their faith. What would Europe fight for?

I don't care to take this to its limits and quote everything here.

However let me tell you this from my heart. If a doctor performs any medical procedure on my daughter while she is a child I will bust him in the mouth and kick him several times when he is down they can throw me under the jail. Along with all the feminazi's that get in my way that I kick in the face for such a thing pretending its ok and talking about a woman's rights.

No one has a right to murder a 6 month old child in the womb when there are alternatives.

[milmor_1]

Thank you for such an indepth and heartfelt response.

Some points I would like to raise are as follows,

1.
I believe that contrary to your perception that this article was ANTI American it was actually complimentary of America and derisive of current British Values.

2.
Like you I have NO religion but find it difficult to agree to abortion for the sake of it. I believe that if its for the mothers health then there are good reasons.

3. Here in Ireland we have had several referendums on abortion and believe me they were very devisive (and indeed these issues still are)

4. I believe that this issue transends religious beliefs and goes down to personal moral beliefs of what is right and wrong.

5. As for the disparity in beliefs and opinions of one side of the world of the other side (i.e. Europe/Britain V USA) I am sure that as Clint Eastwood said in Heartbreak Ridge "opinions are like (you know what) we all have one, and I am fine with that. Just dont try and enforce it on me.

Once again thanks for the post