Vietnam Vets Spat On Settling The Controversy

[las47032]

A few days ago, Dan Riehl wrote about the debate, Vietnam vets were spat on.

The increasing debate on the Slate blog http://www.slate.com/id/2158608?nav=tap3 vets returning from Vietnam were spat by anti war peaceniks. The article contends the allegations are untrue. "The myth of the spat-upon Vietnam veteran refuses to die"

Volokh web site, Jim Lindgren calls attention to a few weak points in search processes http://volokh.com/posts/1170519427.shtml that might lead the way the reason why the accounts didn’t turn up or appear contemporary accounts contributing to the premise Vietnam vets were not spat on.

Riehl Googled to see if the stories were truth or fables. He wanted to know and substantiate the spitting incident happened. He found on a government server, using the advanced Google search, found a direct source report. http://209.85.165.104/unclesam?q=cache:7D0...nk&cd=10&gl=us- also available in pdf. http://www.ct.ngb.army.mil/pao/guardian/2004/CG_DEC04new.pdf


As a young Marine officer Carl Bourne was trying to help recruit University of Connecticut students into the USMC. Some UConn students responded by spitting at him and throwing ink on his dress uniform, Bourne said about his experience on the Storrs campus.

Bourne was the target of spitting and ink throwing in 1973. As a lieutenant he paid for his uniforms, so the ink was not a welcome alteration, especially considering the low pay of the early 1970s. He said he was also called a "baby killer" – right in his own home state.

He shows additional example authenticated in The Legacy of Psychological Trauma from the Vietnam War for American Indian Military Personnel http://www.ncptsd.va.gov/ncmain/ncdocs/fac...ative_vets.html

"I was spit on and called a baby-killer in the mainstream culture when I first came home, and no way any college would accept me or any good job would be open to me. I felt too ashamed and enraged to accept the love and gratitude my family and community showed me. I thought I was going crazy, waking up in a sweat trying to choke my wife, seeing signs of Charley around every corner when the weather was hot and steamy.

Riehl finds additional stories giving many instances http://www.ohioveteranshome.gov/include/ne..._to_history.htm Note: the Sandusky Register gives an URL for the Library of Congress containing a catalog of interviews.

The Tet Offensive began 37 days after Henschel arrived in Vietnam. His unit was sent into Hue, the old imperial capital.

Henschel's platoon was almost wiped out and Henschel himself was shot in the head when he tried to rescue a wounded comrade. The unconscious Marine was placed on top of a tank. When a shell hit the tank, Henschel fell off, and the tank apparently ran over his left leg.
"At this point, probably everyone thought I was dead, but I was unconscious for seven weeks. I regained consciousness in San Diego, Calif., at the naval hospital there. I weighed 72 pounds," Henschel said.

Henschel tried to go to college after he recovered, but he had trouble concentrating because of his injury and discovered that many fellow students at Cornell were hostile.
"I can't count the number of times I was called a murderer," he said. "And actually spit in my face."

Two more stories. Direct from the source: http://www.defendamerica.mil/awt/jun2002/awt061802a.html via a Department Of Defense publication:

Back in the 1960s, Cannon graduated from high school and 10 days later was enlisted in the Air Force. He was stationed at Clark Air Base in the Philippines for 17 months beginning in June, 1967. Upon his return to the United States, he was spit on three times while riding the cable cars in San Francisco simply because he was in uniform.

California Assembly Bill on Public Safety http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/03‑04/bil...9_asm_comm.html circa 2003:

"Overcome by their hatred, people threw rocks at the returning soldiers. Some spit at them. Others physically attacked them and tormented them. No one should have to endure that kind of hate-related violence for simply agreeing to serve their country."

Riehl asserts the already mentioned reports none of them are relevant to the current situation, except for the accounts backup the stories such as the one on Black Five. http://www.blackfive.net/main/2007/01/they_want_it_le.html

It happened to me, and I asked my father if it had ever happened to him. If anyone were to be on the receiving end, it would have been him after being involved in the Ohio State riots and Ohio University riots for years.

The Jawa Report puts forth http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/186402.php the idea vet’s homecoming were not ill-treated, especially the spitting, following Vietnam is merely a pitiful alteration by a more and more loathsome Left-wing that is against the war, and they profess to back the troops.

Id est was true, the Left wouldn’t be all that concerned, occupied with modifying history and by failure in name calling troops of the past and today’s servicemen and women.

Can their love and devotion, as well as their willingness to sacrifice for the nation be called into question today?

Source: http://newsbusters.org/node/10594



Consider the source.

There's an campaign in progress by progressives re-examining accepted truths and revising history regarding the anti war left’s atrocious conduct toward Vietnam veterans, as they get ready to smear the positive endeavors of veterans in the war on terrorism. The foundation for these deceitful trick was set up by associate professor Jerry Lembcke of Holy Cross College in Worcester, Massachusetts http://www.holycross.edu/publicaffairs/news/ http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial...spitting_image/ and his book, "Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam."

Lembcke, former member of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (Vietnam Veterans Against the War) http://www.umassd.edu/communications/artic...s.cfm?a_key=742 he maintains Vietnam veterans didn’t tell the truth concerning the treatment got, and as a matter of fact it was the advocates http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0318‑12.htm http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/8216 Look for “No question, in my mind” who were disrespectful toward the vets for miscarrying unsuccessful in not doing a more satisfactory job of executing the war.

Lembcke’s repudiating troops were spat on. http://www.laborstandard.org/Iraq2/Spat...pon_Veteran.htm http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial...spitting_image/ http://www.trouble‑tickets.org/books...ttingImage.html http://www.sirnosir.com/the_film/reviews_113.html http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=350 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...308620?v=glance

Judged by the company you keep. Lay down with dogs, you get fleas.

Drinking the Kool Aide and believing the agitprop most of it is been rejected as false and dishonored by the VVAW.

Not only the far left maintaining their asinine and duplicitous agitprop, but the anti war peaceniks manipulating, exploiting disinformation as a means to sabotage public endorsement for the war on terrorism.

Pickingup where Lembcke left off, MSNBC's "Countdown with Keith Olbermann,” Olbermann championed Lembcke's undertakings at rewriting history. Olbermann lessened the militant behavior of Vietnam vets got when they came back from Vietnam when he expressed a negative opinion the account the vets were spat on and he asserts there wasn’t any substantiated instance of Vietnam vets were spat on returning from Vietnam. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16943271/ http://www.nysun.com/article/48084

And, oh, by the way, there is not one confirmed case, not one, of Americans spitting on veterans returning from Vietnam.

One of many examples denial of Vietnam vets being ill treated.

And Even More on Spitting http://opovet.blogspot.com/
A hot under the collar veteran. He states Vietnam vets were not spat on. http://opovet.blogspot.com/2005/08/spittin...e‑of.html

The assertion vets said the incidence happened doesn’t make it so. According to the guy’s account the occurrences didn’t happen. Yet, he offers no proof. Likewise, his statements doesn’t not prove the vets were not spat on.

Get to heaven, go tell that to Lynda Van Devanter, Army nurse, 71st Evacuation Hospital, Pleiku from 1969 to 1970. She wrote a book “Home Before Morning.” Van Devanter writes about her tour in Vietnam, and following her return and in uniform, she encountered hostile action. Some people hurled insults and threw objects at her. Amazon.com Home Before Morning The Story of an Army Nurse in Vietnam Books Lynda Van Devanter http://www.amazon.com/Home‑Before...m/dp/1558492984

Following accounts, are the vets lying, making up stories?!

Kesher Talk Spit and Baby Killers Echoes of Vietnam
http://www.keshertalk.com/archives/2006/12..._and_baby_k.php

Spitting on returning Vietnam vets ‑ did it happen ‑ snopes.com
http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=2360

Vietnam Veteran says thank our troops in Iraq
http://www.themountainear.com/story46.shtml

Heroes Without Honor Face the Battle at Home ‑‑ Monday, Apr. 23, 1979 ‑‑ Page 1 ‑‑ TIME
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,920248,00.html

According to Bobby Muller, he was spat on. American RadioWorks ‑ Revisiting Vietnam http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/...uller_chat.html

Flashback
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/OliverN...11/03/flashback

David H. Hackworth
Vietnam vets were called baby-killers and they were maligned by unrelenting, foolhardy Fifth Column media, and the servicemen were pushed aside by a thankless country.
http://www.hackworth.com/08may01.html

Vietnam vets 'We're all brothers here'
"When we came back from Vietnam, we were called baby-killers and murderers,"" said John Page of Dayton, a retired Air Force sergeant who served in Vietnam in 1971 and 1972."
http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/2005/08/11/106151.php http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/08/12...1_048_11_05.txt

Online NewsHour Remembering Vietnam Days of Protest
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/vietnam/protests.html

Defending America
http://www.hackworth.com/7jul98.html

Dejavu.

The Jawa Report Woman Spits in Soldier's Face (Updated)
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/185654.php

Veteran gets rude welcome on Bainbridge http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/jamieson/181422_robert09.html
He's the veteran who was marching in the parade and was called baby-killer and murderer and received no support from the announcers of the parade.

Guardsman beaten, taunted as "baby killer"
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005835.htm
http://www.kirotv.com/news/9765757/detail.html

Five men assault uniformed guardsman
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/loca...33_dige31m.html

National Guardsman Brutally Attacked In Pierce County
http://www.kirotv.com/news/9765757/detail.html

The St. Patrick's Four and Resistance to the War in Iraq
http://www.counterpunch.org/quigley03172005.html http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0317‑32.htm

Granted, not all vets were subjected to cruel treatment. Nevertheless, there quite a few Vietnam vets were mistreated.

Not only that, I have seen instances vets who where honorably discharged from the military, the guys tried to get their jobs back. They had to fight tooth and nail to be gainfully employed where the men worked prior to being drafted or enlisted in the military.

Also, I heard a lot of vets saying they did duty elsewhere because they didn’t want people to know they had been in Vietnam because of the prevailing attitude toward them at the time. Furthermore, a few of the guys told me not to put down my service dates on job applications because of the stigma attached to veterans who served during that time period.

[Woodmonkey]

Of course they were spit on that that's (to use the title of Gore's book) an "inconvenient truth" for many people of that generation - the ones who did the spitting. Their anti-military history has come back to haunt them.

It seems that some good did come out of the hell they put our Nam Vets through. It made people like me who witnessed that abuse mad as hell and exposed the peaceniks for the hateful people they were (and some still are).

It made many of those who stood on the sidelines and didn't speak out against the abuse of the returning Nam Vets think - at least I hope it did. You had to be blind, deaf and dumb not to know that abuse was going on back then. Who was it who said that all it took for evil to thrive was good men saying nothing?

Mainly it made the Nam Vets mad and they formed their own Vets organization with the motto of "Never again will one generation of Vets abandon another generation of Vets." The Nam Vets are doing for this generation what the WWII Vets didn't do for them - and that is stick up for this current generation of Iraqi Vets.

Most politicians who would be inclined to pander to the peaceniks know that it is the kiss of death to their careers so hold back.

[Snowden]

Mainly it made the Nam Vets mad and they formed their own Vets organization with the motto of "Never again will one generation of Vets abandon another generation of Vets." The Nam Vets are doing for this generation what the WWII Vets didn't do for them - and that is stick up for this current generation of Iraqi Vets.

Since no veterans of this nation had ever been so denegrated, the WWII vets had no expectation of such a think ever being possible. But remember, other than the comparatively few who were career military were organized as a body that could stand firm. Individually, I'm sure many did what they could, but having been drafted because the nation was at war, they had little if any way to be of existence.

Always stating things the WWII vets and/or generation did not do seems to be picking up here. We did what we could, both at the time of that war and since. But it was a civilians, not military.

[Woodmonkey]

Originally Posted by Snowden

Since no veterans of this nation had ever been so denegrated, the WWII vets had no expectation of such a think ever being possible. But remember, other than the comparatively few who were career military were organized as a body that could stand firm. Individually, I'm sure many did what they could, but having been drafted because the nation was at war, they had little if any way to be of existence.

Always stating things the WWII vets and/or generation did not do seems to be picking up here. We did what we could, both at the time of that war and since. But it was a civilians, not military.

That's just the true history, Marianne and it happened. That's in the Vietnam Vets Charter for a reason and thank God it is because we have another generation who would be abused if it weren't for what happened before. It's not the career military who speak out, but those who were miltary for a hitch or two and their supporters.

All the Vets organizations were in existence back then and strong, because they had more members, but they didn't use that organized strength to speak out like they do today. As those of us who lived through it know, it was a nasty time.

Just one example of one outrage. A friend of mine's husband was shot down and killed in Nam. He was Navy. She went back to school so she could support their two kids and made the mistake of telling people what happened. There were those who yelled at her "How does it feel to know you had babies with a baby killer" and other nasty things. Her kids also had nasty things said to them at school. They were alone back then. Now however there are Vets she could turn to who would help her.

As the article Lee Ann posted shows, some want that history swept under the rug, but we won't let that happen.

[leobold1]

Hell, it happened a few months ago near Fort Drum!

I do think that some said they were spit on when they weren't, just like there are people who claim awards they never recieved.

However, that doesn't take away the legion of people who ACTUALLY WERE spit on, and in today's "truth" they are called liars and worse.