March of Folly

[odannyboy]

Since those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it - and since the cast of characters making pronouncements on the crisis in the Middle East is very much the same as it was three or four years ago - it seems like a good idea to travel down memory lane. Here's what they said and when they said it:


"The greatest thing to come out of [invading Iraq] for the world economy ... would be $20 a barrel for oil." Rupert Murdoch, chairman of News Corporation (which owns Fox News), February 2003

"Oil Touches Record $78 on Mideast Conflict." Headline on www.foxnews.com, July 14, 2006

"The administration's top budget official estimated today that the cost of a war with Iraq could be in the range of $50 billion to $60 billion," saying that "earlier estimates of $100 billion to $200 billion in Iraq war costs by Lawrence B. Lindsey, Mr. Bush's former chief economic adviser, were too high." The New York Times, Dec. 31, 2002

"According to C.B.O.'s estimates, from the time U.S. forces invaded Iraq in March 2003, $290 billion has been allocated for activities in Iraq. ... Additional costs over the 2007-2016 period would total an estimated $202 billion under the first [optimistic] scenario, and $406 billion under the second one." Congressional Budget Office, July 13, 2006

"Peacekeeping requirements in Iraq might be much lower than historical experience in the Balkans suggests. There's been none of the record in Iraq of ethnic militias fighting one another that produced so much bloodshed and permanent scars in Bosnia." Paul Wolfowitz, deputy secretary of defense and now president of the World Bank, Feb. 27, 2003

"West Baghdad is no stranger to bombings and killings, but in the past few days all restraint has vanished in an orgy of 'ethnic cleansing.' Shia gunmen are seeking to drive out the once-dominant Sunni minority and the Sunnis are forming neighborhood posses to retaliate. Mosques are being attacked. Scores of innocent civilians have been killed, their bodies left lying in the streets." The Times of London, July 14, 2006

"Earlier this week, I traveled to Baghdad to visit the capital of a free and democratic Iraq." President Bush, June 17, 2006

"People are doing the same as [in] Saddam's time and worse. ... These were the precise reasons that we fought Saddam and now we are seeing the same things." Ayad Allawi, Mr. Bush's choice as Iraq's first post-Saddam prime minister, November 2005

"Iraq's new government has another able leader in Speaker Mashhadani. ... He rejects the use of violence for political ends. And by agreeing to serve in a prominent role in this new unity government, he's demonstrating leadership and courage." President Bush, May 22, 2006

"Some people say 'we saw you beheading, kidnappings and killing. In the end we even started kidnapping women who are our honor.' These acts are not the work of Iraqis. I am sure that he who does this is a Jew and the son of a Jew." Mahmoud Mashhadani, speaker of the Iraqi Parliament, July 13, 2006

"My fellow citizens, not only can we win the war in Iraq, we are winning the war in Iraq." President Bush, Dec. 18, 2005

"I think I would answer that by telling you I don't think we're losing." Gen. Peter Schoomaker, the Army chief of staff, when asked whether we're winning in Iraq, July 14, 2006

"Regime change in Iraq would bring about a number of benefits for the region. ...Extremists in the region would have to rethink their strategy of jihad. Moderates throughout the region would take heart, and our ability to advance the Israeli-Palestinian peace process would be enhanced." Vice President Dick Cheney, Aug. 26, 2002

"Bush - The world is coming unglued before his eyes. His naive dreams are a Wilsonian disaster." Newsweek Conventional Wisdom Watch, July 24, 2006 edition

"It's time for Democrats who distrust President Bush to acknowledge that he will be the commander in chief for three more critical years, and that in matters of war, we undermine presidential credibility at our nation's peril." Senator Joseph Lieberman, Democrat of Connecticut, Dec. 6, 2005

"I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now." Representative Tom DeLay, Republican of Texas, on the campaign against Slobodan Milosevic, April 28, 1999

www.nytimes.com/krugman

[Caldric]

Since many of left wing fail to report history truthfully I think I will. History should be noted and learned from, yet history should not stop us from doing what is right. The left love to dig up history yet they never follow their own rules. Anyone can build quotes. NYTimes, Central Intelligence of Terrorist.

How foolishly some people will follow the broken bugle call, we should never cease being intellectually honest, because at that point we are simply lying to ourselves to make our arguments and/or regrets appear as something they are not.

Clearly over 70 to 80 % of the nation supported the war. You can not support a war then later turn your back on the mission for political expediency, or just to play smear campaign because some people get their head full of false and negative propaganda. The left is lying they have no scruples about lying or feeding false information no matter how harmful. Sometimes you wonder who is really the enemy?

At least the majority of conservative movement is transparent, dirty sometimes? Yes it is but mostly it is aired. Unfortunately if I made that statement about the left I would be lying to everyone here since I already know that is false and so is the left wing movement in the United States. They are becoming more desperate and hateful every year.

Who is really being dishonest in the United States? The conservatives in power who have mostly admitted they made mistakes. Or the Liberals who pretend they did not support the war and now distance themselves from it. While harming the mission and saying the vilest lies about our military and government. No limits, remember that there are no limits to the lefts hate campaign. They are becoming a cancer in the United States very life blood. They are harmful to the nation period.

The DNC and its very foundation are built on lies and more lies. They have lied so much they can not even remember the things they stated a few years ago. But then they really don't care because their entire ideology is based on the assumption that people are stupid. People must being willing to sell out and be stupid sheep to follow the DNC. Or at least that is the message I see.

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998

"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." -- From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

"Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities" -- From a joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002

"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright, 1998

"There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat... Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He's had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001... He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn't have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we." -- Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

"I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

"Saddam Hussein is not the only deranged dictator who is willing to deprive his people in order to acquire weapons of mass destruction." -- Jim Jeffords, October 8, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed." -- Ted Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002

"The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation." -- John Kerry, October 9, 2002

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

"Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production." -- Ex-Un Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to enriched uranium from foreign sources -- something that is not that difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Saddam’s existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq’s enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Administration’s policy towards Iraq, I don’t think there can be any question about Saddam’s conduct. He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies. Those are simply the facts." -- Henry Waxman, Oct 10, 2002

We can do these quotes all day long. I find it funny how the NYTIMES can only run the conservative quotes?

YET THERE IS NO LIBERAL MEDIA IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICAN SO HELP THEM GOD.

[odannyboy]

Originally Posted by Caldric

At least the majority of conservative movement is transparent, dirty sometimes? Yes it is but mostly it is aired.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Caldric

Who is really being dishonest in the United States? The conservatives in power who have mostly admitted they made mistakes.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!!


(What color is the sky in your world?)

Originally Posted by Caldric

We can do these quotes all day long. I find it funny how the NYTIMES can only run the conservative quotes?

YET THERE IS NO LIBERAL MEDIA IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICAN SO HELP THEM GOD.

It was Paul Krugman, if you'd take two seconds to bother looking. Why bash the NYT? It was your girl Judith Miller who consistently spread disinformation about WMD's for the neocons in the NYT, you should LOVE the NYT!

P.S......The only ones becoming more "desperate and hateful" are the imbeciles who still preach about 9/11 in the same sentence as Iraq (as though the two are connected, and they never were) and follow those who led us down the road we are on, and when called to the carpet for this disastrous war they start blaming "Liberals" for this incredible bloody mess they made!

IMPEACH!!!!

[odannyboy]

Originally Posted by Caldric

The left is lying they have no scruples about lying or feeding false information no matter how harmful. Sometimes you wonder who is really the enemy?

They are becoming a cancer in the United States very life blood. They are harmful to the nation period.

The DNC and its very foundation are built on lies and more lies. They have lied so much they can not even remember the things they stated a few years ago. But then they really don't care because their entire ideology is based on the assumption that people are stupid. People must being willing to sell out and be stupid sheep to follow the DNC. Or at least that is the message I see.

You are definitely a "23% er", you'd walk off a cliff for sure.

[Caldric]

No I am hardly a 23er. I am far too opinionated to fall into that group.

What road Dan? Do you quit so easily in the face of hardship? I did not blame liberals Dan I simply point out your sources hypocrisy. I have no problem saying I supported and still support our actions in the Middle East. I have a problem with people like you and the NYT and MSNBC and CNN and Kerry and Kennedy and others with short-term memory lost.

I think history, real history the kind that is wrote many years after we are dead will be kindly to President Bush. I honestly believe that, it will get better. Clinton will be remembered not as a great president but the president that had intercourse and oral sex in the white house with young interns and had numerous extramarital affairs.

Let me see which group I want to be in….. The one that freed 60, 70 million people from tyrants, or the one that could have their bio wrote in Hustler magazine and win a Porn nomination for best story of the year?

By the way,
Impeach for what? If they have honest charges then impeach him. Then we will see how Cheney runs things.

[odannyboy]

Originally Posted by Caldric

Clinton will be remembered not as a great president but the president that had intercourse and oral sex in the white house with young interns and had numerous extramarital affairs.

Clinton will be remembered as a great President who was viciously attacked by neo conservative and theocratic nutjobs with an axe to grind who then attained power in 2000 and began the most disastrous two term reign of power in 230 years.

Nero fiddles while Rome burns.

[Caldric]

Originally Posted by odannyboy

Clinton will be remembered as a great President who was viciously attacked by neo conservative and theocratic nutjobs with an axe to grind who then attained power in 2000 and began the most disastrous two term reign of power in 230 years.

Nero fiddles while Rome burns.

I agree Clinton reminds me of Nero, more like Chamberlin though, but without the honor.

Clinton was not a great president I just don't understand that. What did he do?

Microsoft, Silicon Valley, Intel, IBM et al. created the boom of the 90's, not Clinton. What he did hand off was a broken economy, although that is because of the boom busting but still if he is going to be given credit for something he didn't do might as well take credit for the bust too.

Hardly the most disastrous term in our history. Not even close. That would be LBJ, Nixon and Carter or the great depression under FDR and Hoover.