Can females be drafted?

[Woodmonkey]

Originally Posted by Hoss68

Women have not been able to try to get a SEAL, Ranger, Recon, Grunt postition because they are combat postitions, therefore they are not allowed. Sorry Katie.

Go back and read what I wrote, Hoss. I never advocated any of that.

Women in this country rightfully want equal rights. Formerly all male clubs and schools have been forced to include women. Sports programs for males in high school and college have been reduced so that women's sports programs can be increased. The military itself has been forced (in some cases) to include women in non-combat positions that were formerly not available to women.

Women want to be equal to men and have the same rights which they should. Nothing in life is free .... if a draft is reinstated then women should also be drafted. Equal rights means equal responsibilities. Women shouldn't get a free ride here.

[Hoss68]

Leeann~ GTG honey! For those of us who have served, we get it.

Katie~ I did read what you wrote, it was not about advocating, it was stating that they have tried. You can't "try" if you are not eligible by law. THAT was my point.

Equal rights does not mean equal eligibility. I am tired of women who stand on soap boxes saying they "earned" equal rights. BULLSH*T! The men and women who have died for this country, served this country, died trying to get here... THEY earned it. Just because people were born in this country does not give them the right to say they "earned" it. WOW! They are the result of the fastest sperm, no more, no less.

Comparing clubs, schools and sports to a draft that would include women is ludicrous. Opening up certain MOS' that are considered non-combat is a whole different ball game. Apples and oranges. When I was in, a feild MP was the closest a WM would have gotten to the front lines. That would have been me, and it still worried me, as it could have made me a liability to anyone around me. Not that I could not physically handle it, because I was DAM good at my job and built like a brick sh*thouse, but because my presense and possible injury could have harmed others... THAT is why any former or AD women believe they should not be on the front lines.

Here's a question for ya~ How would you feel if they imposed a draft in 15 or 16 years? A war on the lines of Vietnam? How would you feel then? Watching your grand-daughter be drafted?

See I look at the long-term too. I have had dozens of people ask me if I would let Becca join. Hell yes I would, regardless of what is going on in the world. It is HER life, her choice and I trust her judgement, even now at 13. She thinks things through on many levels before she makes a decision about anything, but that's not the point. It's her life. My folks gave me the same support.

Seeing her drafted would scare me, but I will honor what is needed. If she runs, she will pay for it.

[katerina]

I am not saying that women should be drafted. I am saying that whatever strenght environment changes in activity, and people don't dicide, it's like voting. I wouldn't necessary say that women will be or anything like that. I wouldn't handle the adrenaline, but I would rather be part of the workforce around the war like being a Mental Health Specialist or nurse, you know what I mean, that's just an example. Clerk, mechanic, pilot, tank operator, that such a thing.

Nobody knows..................

[Woodmonkey]

Originally Posted by Hoss68

Equal rights does not mean equal eligibility.

I think that's where you're misunderstanding what I wrote. I'm not even including any combat jobs when I'm talking about women also being drafted if a draft is started again. The majority of men who were drafted (or joined to avoid the Army) never went near combat. Neither should women -- we both agree on that. Women are a known weak link physically.

I am tired of women who stand on soap boxes saying they "earned" equal rights. BULLSH*T! The men and women who have died for this country, served this country, died trying to get here... THEY earned it. Just because people were born in this country does not give them the right to say they "earned" it. WOW! They are the result of the fastest sperm, no more, no less.

Amen! Past soldiers earned our freedom and present soldiers guarentee it. Equal rights are something else and were earned in the 20th century by both men and women determined that everybody should be equal in practice as well as law. That 'everybody' included women who were shut out of a lot. Just an example, back in those bad old days neither you nor my daughter would be able to be MP's. So....women today who weren't born, or were only children, in those days, didn't 'earn' equal rights, they inherited them.

Freedom was earned on the battlefields by soldiers.

Equal rights were earned in the courts by determined citizens

Comparing clubs, schools and sports to a draft that would include women is ludicrous.

Actually, it makes a lot of sense when you are talking about equal rights, which I was. Women demanded access to all the men's perogatives and got them. The last remaining male perogative is the draft. It is only fair that women get that one even though (or especially?) it's not a desireable one. Remember, I'm not talking about combat, but support. Why shouldn't women have to serve if men have to (in a draft)?

Opening up certain MOS' that are considered non-combat is a whole different ball game.

Actually, it isn't and was part of the woman's movement. The movement wanted all opportunities opened to women and the military were one of their targets. Look back and you'll see there are a lot of MOS's available to women that weren't decades ago. You and my daughter are beneficiaries of that and I'm grateful for that.

Not that I could not physically handle it, because I was DAM good at my job ... but because my presense and possible injury could have harmed others... THAT is why any former or AD women believe they should not be on the front lines.

My Jen could have written that one. Those are her sentiments. She was good at what she did, but knew her limits. She's 5'4-1/2" and around 120# so she doesn't have the physical strength needed for combat. She's in great shape though and strong for a woman.

Here's a question for ya~ How would you feel if they imposed a draft in 15 or 16 years? A war on the lines of Vietnam? How would you feel then? Watching your grand-daughter be drafted?

Again, the majority of men did not go near combat and the majority of them didn't go to Vietnam. They were support. Most of the men who were drafted into the Army went into support fields or hurried up and joined another service to avoid the Army.

The draft doesn't only mean combat soldiers.

As for my granddaughter...what if I have a grandson. Why would there be a difference in obligation to serve our country? Serving doesn't alway mean combat, usually it means supporting those at sat soldiers. I hear the term REMF tossed around in another place like it's a bad thing and yet I'd like to see the soldier going who would make it on his own and without their support.

See I look at the long-term too. I have had dozens of people ask me if I would let Becca join. Hell yes I would, regardless of what is going on in the world. It is HER life, her choice and I trust her judgement, even now at 13. She thinks things through on many levels before she makes a decision about anything, but that's not the point. It's her life. My folks gave me the same support.

Good for you!

Seeing her drafted would scare me, but I will honor what is needed. If she runs, she will pay for it.

I would scare me too if we had to reinstate the draft for a lot of reasons. However, if we do, the women who enjoy the equal rights (I'm differentiating from freedom) in this country also have to step up to the plate.

Equal rights mean equal responsibilities

[sfga6970]

To me, the drafting of women is a moot point. We won't have to worry about it until there is a world-wide conflict that would require a massive expansion of our armed forces.

There are many jobs and functions that women can perform, usually even better than men. From what I've seen, most women have a better "attention to detail" and are proficient in tasks that many men just blow off because they are boring. Intell and planning are two that come to mind. I ran a long-range recon team and really wouldn't want a woman with me, but if she could provide me with the info I needed, I would accept it in a heartbeat because I know it would be accurate.

My Daughter is on one of the largest Navy ships in the fleet and is competent in her duties, but knows her limitations and leaves the "grunt work" to the guys. Our volunteer military brings in the better qualified service people, not just those who are there because they have to be.

I was drafted, but know both sides of the coin because I received my Greetings letter two weeks before I was going to enlist.

[The_Federalist]

My Jen could have written that one. Those are her sentiments. She was good at what she did, but knew her limits. She's 5'4-1/2" and around 120# so she doesn't have the physical strength needed for combat. She's in great shape though and strong for a woman.

Combat effectiveness is the key.

Most Infantrymen are expected to carry loads greater than 40% of their body weight.
A maximum load of 170 lbs is 68 lbs. The energy cost of carrying that weight rises steeply beyond this percentage. For loads more than 40% of body weight, the energy expenditure rises disproportionately and fatigue occurs sooner.

Now take a female in top physical condition at 120 lbs, and load them down with 68 lbs of gear. They are now carrying 56% of their body weight, any man or woman carrying 56% of their body weight for 8+ miles will likely fall out and become combat ineffective.

[Hoss68]

There were far more that saw combat during Vietnam then you've acknowledged Katie. Way too dammed many!

Jen is tiny compared to me. 5'10" averaged weight 160. We humped all the time, full packs, flack jacets, helmet, the whole nine. The only time I hated it was when we did BN humps. We had to cut our speed by about half. That sucked ass!

Most women are not physically able to do the job I did, thanks God there weren't many assigned to our company. In fact of the 3 of us, the other 2 were POS and got dogged for it. One couldn't hang for a 1/4 mile on our runs, you can imagine how she performed on humps. They even arranged for her to be light duty for our CG, we had the obstacle course...

If a draft is EVER reinstated, add women to the roster, but do not ever allow them in combat MOS'.