Unholy Alliance

[Angelus]

The title is confrontational, i'm talking about the relationship between Blair and Bush. I throw my political hat in the ring, if I were American I'd be Democrat.

Here in Britain we have a culture of socialism, not that domineering crappy Russian, Chinese, stuff, which was about domination of the masses.

No I am talking about Christian Socialism "If you have two pair of shoes, and your neighbour has none, give him a pair of yours." Christians may remember a great guy say that more than once.

Here in the UK we a have a Social Services which care for the most disadvantaged, we have the National Health Service which provides care at the point of entry (regardles of insurance donations), we have a Social security Service which ensures that no one falls below a certain poverty level (a safety net), etc, etc.

I know this is not the culture of the US, where it is an economy led society, however, I accept the differences, like gun control - we wouldn't have it (any kind), Death penalty - we wouldn't have it (any kind), and so on. I accept we have cultural differences over the pond.

My main arguement is that I have lost faith in my UK culture. I was a member of the Labour Party in Britain for many decades. I have now resigned.

For me Tony Blair has taken my Party to the right of the political spectrum, where i cannot in conscience go with him. In US terms, we in Britain have moved (within a Party structure) from Democrat to republican (within a party structure) which is threatening our Christian socialist values.

I want to see elderly care free, I want health services free, i want social benefits paid (albeit with monitoring systems in place - no free-bees).

We have proved it, we can pay for it through wage contributions and the tax system. For me the tax system is a means of distributing wealth. I earn a good wage, £30,000 per year (($45,000 US) but I don't mind paying my 'alms' my contributions to the less fortunate.

I resent Tony Blair moving my Party to the right.

I resigned at the time of the IRAQ invasion. Not because of Iraq, Saddam was a ruthless dictator, not about WMD's I don't care, but to remove a tyrant. I support the war in Iraq.

But a (supposed) left wing Prime Minister, canoodling up to an ultra-right wing US President is politically incorrect, for me.

YOUR US OPINIONS ON BLAIR?

[DocDiggs]

The polite way to respond to your Q re Blair is to comment on his brown nose. Such as that only comes from one place.

You will probably be shot at here, but I think your comments re social services are right-on. However, in the US, especially under repub. presidents, ther is rarely enough $ for such programs even if they did get a "GO".

[RIML]

Originally Posted by Angelus

YOUR US OPINIONS ON BLAIR?

We call him "Bush's Poodle" - but you already knew that...



I admire how he must handle himself with "Prime Minister's Questions." every week. Bush is intellectually incapable of engaging in such a verbal joust with our elected representatives. He's barely capable of mumbling to himself for any period of time - not that anything he says would ever make sense. You notice how he explains issues in such simple terms, yet in an exasperated and repetitive manner? - Well, that's how his staff must have had to explain things to him...

I can see how you feel you've been sold a bill of goods by your Labour Government.

Blair is obviously the much brighter of the two. So it's to whatever forces are in the background - and no doubt to me it's common control of the oil to restrict supply, hamper the market, and maximize profits for the Corporations.

I used to be Republican - but now cross myself and drape garlands of garlic about myself to ward off effects of those who've taken over the party. A bunch of greedy corporate bast*rds who would cut every social program possible to enrich themselves and trample our Constitution to advance their agenda.....

[Scrappy]

Originally Posted by Angelus

YOUR US OPINIONS ON BLAIR?

LOL, riml, disregard what he said. Blair did not get into power in your country because of anything bush did, nor is currently in power by bush. They're just two leaders who, most of the time, agree on how to handle foreign policy. And from my take on how you feel, Blair will not stay in power based solely on foreign policy. Don't think that riml's opinion of Blair as as some dog is prevelant at all among the US, I don't think that and I don't think you would either anything untowards your country. You're your own country, for better or worse, you put your own leaders in charge. And you can take them out


Really, if Blair is not doing what you think he should, vote against the Labour Party. Weigh the issues that concern you and vote.

[RIML]

Originally Posted by Scrappy

Don't think that riml's opinion of Blair as as some dog is prevelant at all among the US, I don't think that and I don't think you would either anything untowards your country. You're your own country, for better or worse, you put your own leaders in charge. And you can take them out

No, don't think that my observation that Blair is continually referred to as "Bush's Poodle" is shared by most Americans. So many Yanks, uneducated as they be, are completely oblivious as to what is going on across the Pond. We know you Brits wouldn't by chance refer to him as a brown-nosed pup either, would you...

"Bush's Poodle," indeed!!!

[Angelus]

Doc, as diplomatic and elequent as ever.

Scrappy, Blair was elected on an anti-Conservative campaign in 1997. Since then he is no better than what has gone before, in fact, worse. At least with the Conservatives you got what you expect, employer led policies.

Blair was elected to change that.

He has pushed through many market led policies where social care is concerned. In Britain we believe that the state has a role to play as a safety net for those facing disadvantage. Blair has introduced right-wing socio-economic policies through based on his huge majority in Parliament.

RIML yes he is seen here as a puppet to the Bush administration. As I said in the previous post, it is not the war in Iraq that abhores me about him, but the way canoodles up to the Bush admistration.

His proposals to change the way we deliver health, education and social welfares is an anathma to us, it is straight from the American socio-economical way of life. We are the UK not the US, the US wouldn't want the UK model there. What if Bush said, "No guns in America, Britain don't have them, so we won't".

Britain needs to be rid of this right-wing lapdog, and allow us in the UK to form our own social model/s.

He may look good over there, but we have to live with him, and his policies.

I want our UK tax system to distribute wealth, from those who have, to those who don't. It is my religious and moral belief that no one should go without in our country, let alone the third world.

I refuse tore-join the labour party till Blair is out. I stayed, and i fought, but nothing changed, so I left.

[RIML]

Originally Posted by Angelus

His proposals to change the way we deliver health, education and social welfares is an anathma to us, it is straight from the American socio-economical way of life. We are the UK not the US, the US wouldn't want the UK model there. What if Bush said, "No guns in America, Britain don't have them, so we won't".

Britain needs to be rid of this right-wing lapdog, and allow us in the UK to form our own social model/s.

He may look good over there, but we have to live with him, and his policies.

I want our UK tax system to distribute wealth, from those who have, to those who don't. It is my religious and moral belief that no one should go without in our country, let alone the third world.

Actually there are a number of us here who believe Govt should restrain the Robber-Barons rather than aid them, as Bushco has so ably done.. Ah, where is Teddy Roosevelt... (he actually proposed universal health care in the US during his 1912 run for President)

With a military budget exceeding that of the total of military budgets of that of the next highest eighteen countries budgets - and the number of enemies we've managed to create - who can pummel us with our own aircraft - well, you get the picture....

I hear tell the Poodle has a spot reserved on Lord Browne's Board at BP....