Russia's Problems Increasing

[BrianK]

Maybe this would open the eyes of those that can't quite grasp the idea that America wouldn't be taken over in an overnight move. Slow and continous is what Putin is dealing with and not to well. Now that areas are entrenched with muslims after the fact action is what he is facing. That after the fact thinking process is what is most bothersome. That very same after the fact political correct, wait & see, bring the troops home now, ignore the reality is what Ted Kennedy and his ilk are promoting. I'd hope that thinking process would look at the reality of how that is working in Russia.

By FATIMA TLISOVA, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 7 minutes ago



NALCHIK, Russia - Militants attacked police and government buildings in Russia's volatile Caucasus region Thursday, taking hostages and turning a provincial capital into a war zone wracked by gunfire and explosions that left at least 85 people dead, mostly insurgents.


Chechen rebels claimed responsibility for the offensive in Nalchik, the capital of the mostly Muslim republic of Kabardino-Balkariya, as a new front opened in the Kremlin's decade-old battle against Islamic insurgents.

The rebels' struggle against Russia, originally a separatist movement, increasingly has melded with Islamic extremism in the past decade and fanned out beyond Chechnya's borders to encompass the entire Caucusus region.

The insurgent strategy of simultaneous attacks on facilities in Nalchik, a city of 235,000, was similar to a rebel siege last year in another Caucasus republic, Ingushetia, in what appears to be an attempt to target areas outside Chechnya and keep Moscow off-balance.

Kabardino-Balkariya is the fifth of seven republics in the mountainous region to be hit by the spillover of violence from the struggle in Chechnya. The insurgents are trying to exploit tensions among a variety of ethnic groups in the impoverished region as well as native Muslims and the ethnic Russians, who are Christian.

President Vladimir Putin, beleaguered by attacks that have killed hundreds of civilians and underscored his failure to bring the southern area under control, ordered a total blockade of Nalchik to prevent militants from slipping out. He told security forces to shoot any armed resisters.

Thursday's fighting began about 8:30 a.m. Thursday after police launched an operation to capture about 10 militants in a Nalchik suburb. All 10 suspected militants were killed, Russian Deputy Interior Minister Alexander Chekalin said.

Interfax cited an unidentified law enforcement official as saying fighting was sparked by an attempt by militants to free a group of detained adherents to the radical Wahhabi sect of Islam.

Gunmen staged simultaneous attacks against three police stations, the city's airport and the regional headquarters of the Interior Ministry and Federal Security Service in what appeared what appeared to be an effort to divert police.

The attack at the airport was repelled, the facility was placed under military control and all flights were canceled, news reports said.

The militants also attacked the regional headquarters of the Russian prison system, the Emergency Situation Ministry's press office said. Interfax said a border guards' office also came under attack.

A teacher from School No. 5, who gave only his first name, Spartak, said children had been evacuated from the building, near a police station and an anti-terrorism office at the center of the attacks. Black smoke billowed from the building as panic-stricken parents searched for their children in the school yard.

Cars were overturned or gutted by gunfire, and Russian television footage showed the bloodied bodies of what appeared to be attackers in the streets.

The heavy fighting quieted down after about six hours, though sporadic gunfire continued and officials said militants were holding several hostages at a police station — and released captives said others were being held at a building housing a souvenir shop.

Deputy Interior Minister Andrei Novikov said late Thursday that 61 militants were killed, some from Kabardino-Balkariya and some from other republics in the Russian Caucasus. Russian and regional officials said 12 civilians and 12 police officers were killed.

Russian news agencies, citing figures from Russia's Center for Catastrophic Medicine, reported that 13 people were killed and 116 others were hospitalized, but it was unclear whether those figures referred only to civilians.

Estimates of the number of militants involved ranged from 60 to 300, and the Interfax news agency quoted an aide to the president of Kabardino-Balkariya as saying late Thursday that 17 had been detained.

The region has suffered a growing wave of violence as Islamic extremism is spreading despite the government's harsh anti-terrorist methods, from targeted killings of rebel leaders such as Aslan Maskhadov to paying rewards for information to the demolition of houses where suspected rebels have found refuge.

Police and security forces have fought pitched battles with militants across the region, and the rebels have employed terrorist methods including suicide bombings and the seizure of more than 1,000 hostages last year in a school in the town of Beslan, 60 miles southeast of Nalchik.

The Kavkaz-Center Web site, seen as a voice for rebels loyal to Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev, said it had received a short message claiming responsibility for Thursday's attack on behalf of the Caucasus Front. It said the group is part of the Chechen rebel armed forces and includes Yarmuk, an alleged militant Islamic group based in Kabardino-Balkariya.

Deputy Prosecutor General Vladimir Kolesnikov said suspects detained during Thursday's fighting said the offensive was carried out under orders from two wanted militants — including an active supporter of Basayev.

But armed forces chief of staff Gen. Yuri Baluyevsky said he had no evidence Basayev was involved in the attack. Russian officials also said no evidence supported speculation Basayev had been killed.

As darkness fell, Chekalin said militants holed up in two offices at a police station were holding hostages and battling security forces. Regional President Arsen Kanokov said five or six militants held five hostages at the police station, Interfax reported. Shots rang out late into the night while armored personnel carriers drew close to the station.

At a building housing a souvenir shop, wounded militants released three hostages in exchange for water, but one of those freed said the attackers were still holding three captives.

At an emergency meeting early Friday, Interior Minister Rashid Nurgaliyev ordered police to step up efforts to neutralize the remaining pockets of resistance in the police station and souvenir shop, Russian news agencies reported. They have been asked to surrender.

"They have been given some time to think, but it's understood that nobody is going to wait endlessly for their decision," ITAR-Tass and Interfax quoted Nurgaliyev as saying.


Story Source

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051014/.../russia_attack

[Bluehawk]

I guess their attempt to appease Muslims by failing to send troops into battle in Iraq or Afghanistan has not been seen with quite the generosity intended.

Gee, too bad.

[odannyboy]

Originally Posted by BrianK

Maybe this would open the eyes of those that can't quite grasp the idea that America wouldn't be taken over in an overnight move. Slow and continous is what Putin is dealing with and not to well. Now that areas are entrenched with muslims after the fact action is what he is facing. That after the fact thinking process is what is most bothersome. That very same after the fact political correct, wait & see, bring the troops home now, ignore the reality is what Ted Kennedy and his ilk are promoting. I'd hope that thinking process would look at the reality of how that is working in Russia.

The "strategy" of fighting terrorism in breakaway republic Chechnya is a genuine war, but it is a Russian republic and part of the old Soviet sphere. Iraq is not part of of the "American sphere" until now, of course, due to geographic reasons, but it has been the obsession of the Bush administration. To think that it is at all justified and "worth the cost" is a question that should never, ever be very far from the minds of every American. It muist always be examined closely and our resuorces and troops not be put in harms way for stupid reasons. I remember the screeching about Mogadishu and our present cost is so much higher.

[Snowden]

I think the point Brian is making is really simply that we also are being inundated with Muslims, many of whom will be good citizens, but the influx allows us also to be receiving a good many more who are militant/fanatic Muslims. We know that Saudi, home of Wahhabism and of bin Laden and al Qaeda, has been building and staffing mosques here for several years. A few months ago we had a thread here that revealed that in some of those mosques we already know that insurgency is being taught.

Typically, we are doing nothing about it. This is a great danger, one we can recognize in Russia/Chechnya, France, Germany, Belgium.. and so on. Why don't we see it happening here? It is happening here.

We need to stop pointing elsewhere and look around us - and stop this now, before it's too late here without a great deal of bloodshed.

[odannyboy]

Originally Posted by Snowden

I think the point Brian is making is really simply that we also are being inundated with Muslims, many of whom will be good citizens, but the influx allows us also to be receiving a good many more who are militant/fanatic Muslims. We know that Saudi, home of Wahhabism and of bin Laden and al Qaeda, has been building and staffing mosques here for several years. A few months ago we had a thread here that revealed that in some of those mosques we already know that insurgency is being taught.

Typically, we are doing nothing about it. This is a great danger, one we can recognize in Russia/Chechnya, France, Germany, Belgium.. and so on. Why don't we see it happening here? It is happening here.

We need to stop pointing elsewhere and look around us - and stop this now, before it's too late here without a great deal of bloodshed.

Immigration has tightened for Muslims since 9/11. I don't care if it is politically correct but denying access to young Muslims (or maybe any Muslims) from any country that has a government proven friendly to terrorism should mean they are barred entry into the U.S.

Don't matter who likes it, it could be a matter of surivival from terrorism and we cannot take the chance of not screening anyone who could be a threat.

[The_Federalist]

I think the point Brian is making is really simply that we also are being inundated with Muslims, many of whom will be good citizens, but the influx allows us also to be receiving a good many more who are militant/fanatic Muslims.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908706.html

Somehow I don't think that statement accurately reflects the immigration situation. Of the top 20 countries, the vast majority comes from Asia and South America.

That being said, this data only reflects legally admitted immigrants. However if it were to take into account say illegal immigration from South America, I would expect that to clearly dominate the list.

[Snowden]

Originally Posted by The_Federalist

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908706.html

Somehow I don't think that statement accurately reflects the immigration situation. Of the top 20 countries, the vast majority comes from Asia and South America.

That being said, this data only reflects legally admitted immigrants. However if it were to take into account say illegal immigration from South America, I would expect that to clearly dominate the list.

Fed, my statement was directed exclusively to Islamic immigrants - in no way did I intend it to mean immigration as a whole. Remember too, that large families are the norm for Muslims - and again, this does not mean that all will have large families. However, those who are militant and/or fanatic, will be the ones with 12 and 13 children. Also, remember that the Muslim population in Europe that is now becoming larger than that of the indigent Europeans has been over a generation in growing to such high numbers.

What I said is accurate when you consider who it is we are discussing. These are people who live their religion as no others on earth live theirs.