Idea that the insurgency is a spontaneous rising of the Iraqi people is "hogwash"

Woodmonkey · 01-14-2005, 14:12

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Insurgents Not Heroes to Iraqis

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BAGHDAD, Iraq, Jan. 14, 2005 – Any idea that the insurgency is a spontaneous rising of the Iraqi people is "hogwash," said a senior Multinational Force Iraq official here.

The insurgents are people who stand to lose if the Iraqi people choose freedom and democracy, the official told American Forces Press Service. "There are no illusions about the insurgents," he said. "The people know they are immoral, vicious animals who want only their own power."

The insurgents generally are die-hard members of the Baath Party. They are bankrolled out of funds stashed by Saddam Hussein and senior members of the party before the coalition entered Iraq.

"The good news is, those funds are drying up," said the official. "The bad news is, they don't need a lot of money to buy weapons. Iraq is littered with weapons and ammunition."

In addition to Iraqis, foreign fighters are operating in Iraq. Fugitive Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al Zarqawi is the best known. His network has been responsible for some of the most heinous acts of violence against Iraqis and coalition soldiers. Zarqawi took "credit" for attacks on the U.N. compound, attacks against Kurds in northern Iraq and many of the attacks against Iraqi security forces.

Coalition officials said some foreign fighters are entering the country and assuming Iraqi identities. Marines in Fallujah uncovered a building loaded with clothes and identification cards used for that purpose.

The recent battles of Fallujah and Samarra were huge loses for the insurgents. However, small cells of mostly senior members managed to evade the Marines and soldiers at those battles. The leaders managed to begin operations elsewhere. MNFI officials said that is where the insurgents launching attacks in Mosul, for example, came from.

Officials estimate that in all of Iraq, there are between 10,000 and 14,000 dedicated, die-to-the-last-man insurgents. These men – and they are mostly men – rule through intimidation.

Almost every soldier or Marine here has a story about insurgent intimidation. In one, a pharmacist set up a small business cleaning the buildings at Camp Victory. He and his brother and three women journeyed daily onto the camp. One morning, insurgents stopped his vehicle and killed all of them.

In Fallujah, Marines discovered torture chambers where insurgents inflicted unspeakable pain on Fallujans. "We found corpses that were horribly mutilated," said a Marine. "If this were truly a popular uprising, these people would not have to do this."

But the insurgents do recruit, and they are finding a willing pool. This has nothing to do with philosophy, and everything to do with economics, officials said. Unemployment in the nation is high, and the insurgents will pay people to launch attacks on Iraqi security forces or the coalition. "If someone is supporting a family and there is no money coming in, then $200 a month from the insurgents starts looking pretty good," said an MNFI official.

So rebuilding Iraq, getting people work, getting food, water and medicine to the people and clearing sewage is just as much a part of the war against insurgents as "kinetic operations" – actually killing or capturing them. "Take away the need, and you will take away the motivation for joining," said one official.

Another used the example of Sadr City – the Shiia neighborhood in Baghdad. The coalition began a major project to deliver electricity and clean water to the city. It started in the eastern part of the city and worked west.

"You could see the number of incidents drop along the line of the project," he said. "The people didn't want insurgents taking away everything they had gained." Intelligence tips from the people in the city also increased, and Iraqi security forces and members of the 1st Cavalry Division were able to round up dozens of insurgents.

This is an example of affecting people where they live. Providing dependable and safe electricity in homes is almost more important than building new power plants, officials said. Iraqis typically wired their own homes and used everything from barbed wire to car-battery cables to tap into the electrical grid.

Water-borne diseases are a major killer in Iraq. Fixing the water distribution system to homes is almost more important than building new purification plants.

"People with raw sewage in their street or front yard don't want to clean up the Tigris, they want the sewage out of their yards," said an official. Making these type of changes in the daily life of average Iraqis will go a long way to destroying the insurgency, he said.

Officials expect the level of intimidation to increase as the Jan. 30 election approaches. To that end, the Iraqi interim government, Iraqi security forces and coalition forces are working to increase the level of security. Up to election day, coalition and Iraqi forces will continue operations targeting the insurgents, officials said.

On election day, the Iraqi security forces will provide security around the almost 6,000 polling places in the country. Coalition forces will provide a quick-reaction capability to incidents.

http://www.dod.mil/news/Jan2005/n011...005011402.html

BrianK · 01-14-2005, 15:13

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Originally Posted by Woodmonkey

The insurgents generally are die-hard members of the Baath Party. They are bankrolled out of funds stashed by Saddam Hussein and senior members of the party before the coalition entered Iraq.

"The good news is, those funds are drying up," said the official. "The bad news is, they don't need a lot of money to buy weapons. Iraq is littered with weapons and ammunition."

I think these two paragraphs are probably the best reason or explanation of why we are in Iraq. Of course a person would have to consider the effects of Hussein & sons remaining in power. With arms, muntions, rocket capability, & technology sales happening while there was an embargo; it isn't hard to figure out what would take place if the embargo was lifted. Next it isn't difficult to understand why the UN had every incentive to lift the embargo. With the UN security council voting against America we now know why.

When my youngest son completed training in the 87th. Airborne he came home with a saying that stuck with me. The saying " What's wrong with this picture?" That of course describes looking at a situation and visualizing the harm if nothing is done.

Looking at Iraq with no restrictions, a wealth that was already buying future positioning, the combined hatred for America by bin Ladin & Hussein, IMO this was a prime example of " What's wrong with this picture?"

There are many that would have preferred to wait and see. There has been and I suppose always will be that element. Unfortunately the element that has no problem with flying planes into buildings full of innocent people are out there too. American's can't be 100% sure the wealth & wrath of Hussein would have been used against us years into the future but now at least we know it won't be. War is about winning and strategy counts. bin Laden's strategy got our attention, a counter strategy has to include removing the support system terrorists have.

Snowden · 01-14-2005, 15:55

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Originally Posted by BrianK

There are many that would have preferred to wait and see. There has been and I suppose always will be that element. Unfortunately the element that has no problem with flying planes into buildings full of innocent people are out there too. American's can't be 100% sure the wealth & wrath of Hussein would have been used against us years into the future but now at least we know it won't be. War is about winning and strategy counts. bin Laden's strategy got our attention, a counter strategy has to include removing the support system terrorists have.

Thanks, Brian. That whole post is excellent, but I think that last bit is vital. We did remove a great deal of that support system. The Wahabbi movement becoming part of the Sunni picture in Iraq, which we see set forth on this page - I'm having trouble finding it, but will do that and edit in the URL at the bottom here* - that element was a very strong indication of the coming together of bin Laden and Hussein's group, with or without WMDs found in Iraq, with or without positive proof or provable evidence of a meeting between those two men. There was a definite connection, with Wahabbism moving into the Ba'ath Party ranks.

The coincidental involvement of the followers of Abu Q'tub in Egypt (incorrectly spelled and confusing, same URL will apply) was inevitable. He was a great 20th Century philosopher who correctly read the west and its increasing materialistic, selfish and ultimately nihilistic leanings. He saw us become weak - especially Europe, but also the US. This gave bin Laden and all that portion of fanatic Islam the scene that made a move at this time most propitious and very capable of being successful. Hopefully we will stay them off - but it's still not impossible for them to win over Europe, and if that happens, the US and Canada, hopefully Britain, in the northern hemisphere will be the only areas not under Islamic rule.

This is a worst-case scenerio for us - but it's what they saw/see as possible, or we would not have been attacked on 9/11. Our lack of response to the previous attacks only encouraged them. This jihad is not some small war being waged by a tribe from the Mid East; it's been a highly successful crawl across the globe for 1400 years, and they have never accepted defeat. It's a word they do not ascribe to - any more than we in the US have ever accepted defeat.

*http://www.trackpads.com/forum/showt...49#post1596649 - Analysis: Scared of Wahhabi assassins

BrianK · 01-15-2005, 14:47

Marianne your post gives the backround and reasoning for why a positive action is needed. It could be that like me manu Americans just didn't or even now don't know the history. In order to understand the broader scope of what this war is about a person has to understand how the progression brought us to 9/11.

The beginning "dot" is the religion. The slow and continous expansion, to where it branches into radical fanaticism by some of the followers. Looking at the internal workings of the religion helps.

The phrase "connect the dots" was popular right after 9/11. With your help maybe those that read your insightful posts will begin to "connect the dots".

Snowden · 01-15-2005, 15:22

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Originally Posted by BrianK

Marianne your post gives the backround and reasoning for why a positive action is needed. It could be that like me manu Americans just didn't or even now don't know the history. In order to understand the broader scope of what this war is about a person has to understand how the progression brought us to 9/11.

The beginning "dot" is the religion. The slow and continous expansion, to where it branches into radical fanaticism by some of the followers. Looking at the internal workings of the religion helps.

The phrase "connect the dots" was popular right after 9/11. With your help maybe those that read your insightful posts will begin to "connect the dots".

Brian, what worries me is that the military (which is not allowed to be run by the generals who probably do understand this), theologians and a few other religious who understand the workings of east and west - and most of all, history - are not actively involved in advising our government of these facts. So far as we know, a few fundamentalist Christian advisors, who may or may not understand what is planned by our enemy. And it is planned.

Who will listen to us? I've been talking the ears off everybody I know, and only a few on this site, my sons and their friends who are also theologians, and a few who really know the history of Islam have heard me. And a good many who have think I'm just an old woman with a bone to chew. I wish that were right - but I do know what I'm saying and I know it's true.

If my sons were advising the president, I could relax and know that at least we are doing the very best thing possible. Unfortunately, his advisors are firing those generals who do know.

BrianK · 01-15-2005, 20:49

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Originally Posted by Snowden

Who will listen to us? I've been talking the ears off everybody I know, and only a few on this site, my sons and their friends who are also theologians, and a few who really know the history of Islam have heard me. And a good many who have think I'm just an old woman with a bone to chew. I wish that were right - but I do know what I'm saying and I know it's true.

The really bad part is, there is no pleasure in eventually telling those that will not hear "I told you so" .

I read, listen, and weigh what is said. If it makes sense to me I hold onto that as a learning tool. Little things like what a Navy Chief Petty Officer told me stuck. That was " Always try to find a fat man to work with, he will find the easiest way to get a job done".

In what you are saying about the structure and consistency of purpose of the Muslim religion there is that same learning value.