[MV] Mildoc Paypal and Ebay string

I have had a great amount of trouble with Ebay and Paypal, I won an
auction and paid for it on May 30 and filed a negative feedback against
the seller on June 29 because I had not received the item and he told me
that he has not intention of sending it. Anyway within a few minutes of
my filing negative feedback on him he filed it on me and filed a
nonpaying bidder complaint against me even though I paid with paypal. I
contacted Paypal for a refund and I was informed that because he is a
powerseller they are not responsible for his actions so I canceled my
account. I contacted Ebay and they gave me the same story and I quote
from the email..........

"As eBay is not involved in the actual transaction between Buyers and
Sellers, we have no control over the quality, safety or legality of the
items advertised, the truth or accuracy of the listings, the ability of
Sellers to sell items or the ability of Buyers to buy items. We cannot
ensure that a buyer or seller will actually complete a transaction. "

I wrote back that I plan on putting several pink cadilacs that Elvis Prestley owned on Ebay and planned on using the above paragraph when they tried to kick me off for fraud. They have not responded.

The Item number of the transaction that started all of this is #4304267480. It is just $20 but when he told me he was not going to send the product and Ebay can't touch him it really annoyed me.




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I thank Jon for mentioning his problems with PayPal to the group because
it is something many of us use to make MV related purchases. Sounds like
there are some extenuating circumstances that got Jon into his mess that
would not affect the general user like myself. Not that it makes eBay/
PayPal right to do what they did to him, just noting that it might not be
something of DIRECT concern for the run of the mill user. Jon, I hope
you get it stuck them for what they did! I process credit cards from
around the world too, for 6 years, and never had this sort of BS happen
to me either.

Joe, on the other hand, brings up something that is far more relevant to
the average eBay user. And that is the fraud policies of eBay are a
JOKE! Joe's experience is not unique. I have seen other examples of
eBay saying one thing and then doing another when the situation comes up.
For example, they claim they take shilling seriously. That wasn't my
experience. A seller had some military uniforms for sale using Dutch
Auction. When the auction was winding down and he hadn't got what he
wanted out of it, a shill came along and outbid me 2 days before it
ended. To their credit eBay disallowed that bid, putting me back in the
running. But then 5 minutes before the auction ended, the bastard did it
again. It was so obvious and followed the same exact pattern as the
first shill bid. I notified eBay, documented the whole thing (pointing
out eBay themselves found a shill already once) and demanded they remove
that bid. That would have left me as the winner (not that the bastard
would have sent the thing to me). Ebay never responded, never removed
the fraud bid, and did not kick out the seller for gross violations of
the rules.

In short... eBay's so called "guarantees" are worth as much as used
toilet paper.

Steve
[color=blue]
>I have had a great amount of trouble with Ebay and Paypal, I won an
>auction and paid for it on May 30 and filed a negative feedback against
>the seller on June 29 because I had not received the item and he told me
>that he has not intention of sending it. Anyway within a few minutes of
>my filing negative feedback on him he filed it on me and filed a
>nonpaying bidder complaint against me even though I paid with paypal. I
>contacted Paypal for a refund and I was informed that because he is a
>powerseller they are not responsible for his actions so I canceled my
>account. I contacted Ebay and they gave me the same story and I quote
>from the email..........
>
>"As eBay is not involved in the actual transaction between Buyers and
>Sellers, we have no control over the quality, safety or legality of the
>items advertised, the truth or accuracy of the listings, the ability of
>Sellers to sell items or the ability of Buyers to buy items. We cannot
>ensure that a buyer or seller will actually complete a transaction. "
>
>I wrote back that I plan on putting several pink cadilacs that Elvis
>Prestley owned on Ebay and planned on using the above paragraph when they
>tried to kick me off for fraud. They have not responded.
>
>The Item number of the transaction that started all of this is
>#4304267480. It is just $20 but when he told me he was not going to send
>the product and Ebay can't touch him it really annoyed me.
>
>
>
>
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>[/color]



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Not surprised. Ebay is concerned about profit not the actual auctions being completed.

As long as they are the only game in town they will not stand up to thier promises.

Either a alternative needs to develop or a class action by a bunch of hungry lawyers needs to be filed citing willful neglect by Ebay.

Rick




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For what its worth, I have used ebay for license plate purchases and
other stuff .. 99 44/100 % positive score. Had a neurl but, the poting
is nil. H*A*T*E PayPal .. used it twice, gave me ants.

Frederick C. Langille, Jr.


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Hi Steve
How can you tell FOR SURE if a bid is a shill? I think that may have
happened to me before. I wondered why the seller just didn't put a
higher starting price in the first place. I was guessing it was but
did not have any PROOF to give Ebay.

Tnx
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Grammont [mailto:islander@midmaine.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 11:10 AM
To: Military Vehicles Mailing List
Subject: Re: [MV] Mildoc Paypal and Ebay string


I thank Jon for mentioning his problems with PayPal to the group because
it is something many of us use to make MV related purchases. Sounds
like there are some extenuating circumstances that got Jon into his mess
that would not affect the general user like myself. Not that it makes
eBay/ PayPal right to do what they did to him, just noting that it might
not be something of DIRECT concern for the run of the mill user. Jon, I
hope you get it stuck them for what they did! I process credit cards
from around the world too, for 6 years, and never had this sort of BS
happen to me either.

Joe, on the other hand, brings up something that is far more relevant to
the average eBay user. And that is the fraud policies of eBay are a
JOKE! Joe's experience is not unique. I have seen other examples of
eBay saying one thing and then doing another when the situation comes
up. For example, they claim they take shilling seriously. That wasn't
my experience. A seller had some military uniforms for sale using Dutch
Auction. When the auction was winding down and he hadn't got what he
wanted out of it, a shill came along and outbid me 2 days before it
ended. To their credit eBay disallowed that bid, putting me back in the
running. But then 5 minutes before the auction ended, the bastard did
it again. It was so obvious and followed the same exact pattern as the
first shill bid. I notified eBay, documented the whole thing (pointing
out eBay themselves found a shill already once) and demanded they remove
that bid. That would have left me as the winner (not that the bastard
would have sent the thing to me). Ebay never responded, never removed
the fraud bid, and did not kick out the seller for gross violations of
the rules.

In short... eBay's so called "guarantees" are worth as much as used
toilet paper.

Steve


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p

[color=blue]
>Hi Steve
>How can you tell FOR SURE if a bid is a shill? I think that may have
>happened to me before. I wondered why the seller just didn't put a
>higher starting price in the first place. I was guessing it was but
>did not have any PROOF to give Ebay.[/color]

I manage a BBS with 15,000 members and we are very often able to tell
when people are posting with multiple accounts or are trying to come back
after being banned. You can bet your last dollar that eBay has even more
tools at their disposal than we have. They have access to all account
information. For example, if they check two accounts and find they use
the same credit card number, paypal account, deliverable address, etc.
that is enough right there. I;m sure there are more subtle signs as well.

In my case it was a Dutch Auction for 2 items. The value of these things
is about $100 each. I had bid on one and someone else had bid on the
other. Price was something like $65. Someone comes along and outbids us
by about $150. If you know how Dutch Auctions work this is a big tip off
right there. The bidder had only a few bids to his name and all were
WWII Russian stuff (the auction was for 1980s Hungarian). Then that one
was disallowed. Then right before the auction another bidder put in a
bid for $200 some odd dollars for BOTH of them. That means if the guy
was legit he just paid $400 for something that is at most worth $200
*and* it was roughly $280 more than the current bidding. Either he is
the biggest fool ever (possible), or he was a shill. Profile of the
successful bidder? A few bids to his name for WWII Russian stuff.
Gee... what a coincidence!

It is very hard to tell shills from real bidders. But this was so
blatant. And eBay never, ever responded. IIRC I even sent a follow up
email and got nothing back from that either. THEY JUST DON'T CARE
because that takes time, and time is money.

Steve


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Hi Steve

I got ya.

Tnx
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Grammont [mailto:islander@midmaine.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:59 PM
To: Military Vehicles Mailing List
Subject: Re: [MV] Mildoc Paypal and Ebay string



[color=blue]
>Hi Steve
>How can you tell FOR SURE if a bid is a shill? I think that may have
>happened to me before. I wondered why the seller just didn't put a
>higher starting price in the first place. I was guessing it was but
>did not have any PROOF to give Ebay.[/color]

I manage a BBS with 15,000 members and we are very often able to tell
when people are posting with multiple accounts or are trying to come
back after being banned. You can bet your last dollar that eBay has
even more tools at their disposal than we have. They have access to all
account information. For example, if they check two accounts and find
they use the same credit card number, paypal account, deliverable
address, etc. that is enough right there. I;m sure there are more
subtle signs as well.

In my case it was a Dutch Auction for 2 items. The value of these
things is about $100 each. I had bid on one and someone else had bid on
the other. Price was something like $65. Someone comes along and
outbids us by about $150. If you know how Dutch Auctions work this is a
big tip off right there. The bidder had only a few bids to his name and
all were WWII Russian stuff (the auction was for 1980s Hungarian). Then
that one was disallowed. Then right before the auction another bidder
put in a bid for $200 some odd dollars for BOTH of them. That means if
the guy was legit he just paid $400 for something that is at most worth
$200
*and* it was roughly $280 more than the current bidding. Either he is
the biggest fool ever (possible), or he was a shill. Profile of the
successful bidder? A few bids to his name for WWII Russian stuff.
Gee... what a coincidence!

It is very hard to tell shills from real bidders. But this was so
blatant. And eBay never, ever responded. IIRC I even sent a follow up
email and got nothing back from that either. THEY JUST DON'T CARE
because that takes time, and time is money.

Steve


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