NHL Hockey is Boring

NHL Hockey has become a whack & hack, clutch & grab sport.

I don't have the answer, but the NHL has a big problem. Holding,
hooking, slashing, tackling is no longer penalized. The bigger and
stronger players now prevail in a game that was once fantastic.

Alas, read down through the past and weep for what once was.

Player Points

2003-2004

1 Martin St. Louis, Tampa Bay...... 94
2 Joe Sakic, Colorado.............. 87
2 Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta.......... 87
4 Markus Naslund, Vancouver........ 84
5 Marian Hossa, Ottawa............. 82
6 Patrik Elias, New Jersey......... 81
7 Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa........ 80
7 Cory Stillman, Tampa Bay......... 80
9 Alex Tanguay, Colorado........... 79
9 Robert Lang, 2 teams............. 79
9 Brad Richards, Tampa Bay......... 79


1985-1986- Defenseman gets 138 pts!

1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........215
2 Mario Lemieux, Pittsburgh........141
3 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............138
4 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............131
5 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........123
6 Peter Stastny, Quebec............122
7 Denis Savard, Chicago............116
8 Mats Naslund, Mtl. Canadiens.....110
9 Neal Broten, Minnesota...........105
9 Dale Hawerchuk, Winnipeg.........105




1984-1985

1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........208
2 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............135
3 Dale Hawerchuk, Winnipeg.........130
4 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......126
5 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............121
6 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........117
7 Denis Savard, Chicago............105
7 John Ogrodnick, Detroit..........105
9 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........103
10 Mike Gartner, Washington.........102
10 Brent Sutter, NY Islanders.......102


1983-1984

1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........205
2 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............126
3 Michel Goulet, Quebec............121
4 Peter Stastny, Quebec............119
5 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........118
6 Barry Pederson, Boston...........116
7 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............113
8 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....111
9 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........107
10 Rick Middleton, Boston...........105


1981-1982

1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........212
2 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........147
3 Peter Stastny, Quebec............139
4 Dennis Maruk, Washington.........136
5 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....129
6 Denis Savard, Chicago............119
7 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......117
8 Bobby Smith, Minnesota...........114
9 Dino Ciccarelli, Minnesota.......106
9 Dave Taylor, Los Angeles.........106

1978-1979 - No Gretzky or Oilers!

1 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....134
2 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......130
3 Guy Lafleur, Mtl. Canadiens......129
4 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........126
5 Bob MacMillan, Atlanta...........108
6 Guy Chouinard, Atlanta...........107
7 Denis Potvin, NY Islanders.......101
8 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........ 95
9 Clark Gillies, NY Islanders...... 91
9 Dave Taylor, Los Angeles......... 91



1970-1971 - Defenseman 139 points!!!!!

1 Phil Esposito, Boston............152
2 Bobby Orr, Boston................139
3 Johnny Bucyk, Boston.............116
4 Ken Hodge, Boston................105
5 Bobby Hull, Chicago.............. 96
6 Norm Ullman, Toronto............. 85
7 Wayne Cashman, Boston............ 79
8 John McKenzie, Boston............ 77
9 Dave Keon, Toronto............... 76
9 Fred Stanfield, Boston........... 76
9 Jean Beliveau, Mtl. Canadiens.... 76


1969-1970 - Defenseman Wins The Scoring Race !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1 Bobby Orr, Boston................120
2 Phil Esposito, Boston............ 99
3 Stan Mikita, Chicago............. 86
4 Phil Goyette, St. Louis.......... 78
5 Walt Tkaczuk, NY Rangers......... 77
6 Jean Ratelle, NY Rangers......... 74
7 Jean-Paul Parise, Minnesota...... 72
7 Gordon Berenson, St. Louis....... 72
9 Gordie Howe, Detroit............. 71
10 Dave Balon, NY Rangers........... 70
10 John McKenzie, Boston............ 70
10 Frank Mahovlich, Detroit......... 70

"Achmuud" <hank@netscape.net> wrote in message news:190420042111026789%hank@netscape.net...
>
> NHL Hockey has become a whack & hack, clutch & grab sport.
>
> I don't have the answer, but the NHL has a big problem. Holding,
> hooking, slashing, tackling is no longer penalized. The bigger and
> stronger players now prevail in a game that was once fantastic.

I entirely blame the crackdown on fighting. It used to be that if
someone was playing clutch and grab with your star, your big
guy would drop the gloves and he'd stop.

Illustration:

Dale Hunter (flames) is doing the clutch and grab with Gretzky
(oilers). Dave Semenko steps out onto the ice, drops the gloves
with Hunter and nobody plays clutch and grab with Gretzky for
the rest of the game. Not because they don't want a penalty
but because they don't want to get SemenKO'd.

> Alas, read down through the past and weep for what once was.

I also think that the points may have something to do with the
spreading of talent.
more teams + same amount of talent = less talent per team.

> Player Points
>
> 2003-2004
>
> 1 Martin St. Louis, Tampa Bay...... 94
> 2 Joe Sakic, Colorado.............. 87
> 2 Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta.......... 87
> 4 Markus Naslund, Vancouver........ 84
> 5 Marian Hossa, Ottawa............. 82
> 6 Patrik Elias, New Jersey......... 81
> 7 Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa........ 80
> 7 Cory Stillman, Tampa Bay......... 80
> 9 Alex Tanguay, Colorado........... 79
> 9 Robert Lang, 2 teams............. 79
> 9 Brad Richards, Tampa Bay......... 79
>
>
> 1985-1986- Defenseman gets 138 pts!
>
> 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........215
> 2 Mario Lemieux, Pittsburgh........141
> 3 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............138
> 4 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............131
> 5 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........123
> 6 Peter Stastny, Quebec............122
> 7 Denis Savard, Chicago............116
> 8 Mats Naslund, Mtl. Canadiens.....110
> 9 Neal Broten, Minnesota...........105
> 9 Dale Hawerchuk, Winnipeg.........105
>
>
>
>
> 1984-1985
>
> 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........208
> 2 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............135
> 3 Dale Hawerchuk, Winnipeg.........130
> 4 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......126
> 5 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............121
> 6 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........117
> 7 Denis Savard, Chicago............105
> 7 John Ogrodnick, Detroit..........105
> 9 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........103
> 10 Mike Gartner, Washington.........102
> 10 Brent Sutter, NY Islanders.......102
>
>
> 1983-1984
>
> 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........205
> 2 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............126
> 3 Michel Goulet, Quebec............121
> 4 Peter Stastny, Quebec............119
> 5 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........118
> 6 Barry Pederson, Boston...........116
> 7 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............113
> 8 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....111
> 9 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........107
> 10 Rick Middleton, Boston...........105
>
>
> 1981-1982
>
> 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........212
> 2 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........147
> 3 Peter Stastny, Quebec............139
> 4 Dennis Maruk, Washington.........136
> 5 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....129
> 6 Denis Savard, Chicago............119
> 7 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......117
> 8 Bobby Smith, Minnesota...........114
> 9 Dino Ciccarelli, Minnesota.......106
> 9 Dave Taylor, Los Angeles.........106
>
> 1978-1979 - No Gretzky or Oilers!
>
> 1 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....134
> 2 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......130
> 3 Guy Lafleur, Mtl. Canadiens......129
> 4 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........126
> 5 Bob MacMillan, Atlanta...........108
> 6 Guy Chouinard, Atlanta...........107
> 7 Denis Potvin, NY Islanders.......101
> 8 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........ 95
> 9 Clark Gillies, NY Islanders...... 91
> 9 Dave Taylor, Los Angeles......... 91
>
>
>
> 1970-1971 - Defenseman 139 points!!!!!
>
> 1 Phil Esposito, Boston............152
> 2 Bobby Orr, Boston................139
> 3 Johnny Bucyk, Boston.............116
> 4 Ken Hodge, Boston................105
> 5 Bobby Hull, Chicago.............. 96
> 6 Norm Ullman, Toronto............. 85
> 7 Wayne Cashman, Boston............ 79
> 8 John McKenzie, Boston............ 77
> 9 Dave Keon, Toronto............... 76
> 9 Fred Stanfield, Boston........... 76
> 9 Jean Beliveau, Mtl. Canadiens.... 76
>
>
> 1969-1970 - Defenseman Wins The Scoring Race !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> 1 Bobby Orr, Boston................120
> 2 Phil Esposito, Boston............ 99
> 3 Stan Mikita, Chicago............. 86
> 4 Phil Goyette, St. Louis.......... 78
> 5 Walt Tkaczuk, NY Rangers......... 77
> 6 Jean Ratelle, NY Rangers......... 74
> 7 Jean-Paul Parise, Minnesota...... 72
> 7 Gordon Berenson, St. Louis....... 72
> 9 Gordie Howe, Detroit............. 71
> 10 Dave Balon, NY Rangers........... 70
> 10 John McKenzie, Boston............ 70
> 10 Frank Mahovlich, Detroit......... 70

you stated " The bigger and
stronger players now prevail in a game that was once fantastic."

look at how big the #1 player is for player points pal.


"Achmuud" <hank@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:190420042111026789%hank@netscape.net...
>
> NHL Hockey has become a whack & hack, clutch & grab sport.
>
> I don't have the answer, but the NHL has a big problem. Holding,
> hooking, slashing, tackling is no longer penalized. The bigger and
> stronger players now prevail in a game that was once fantastic.
>
> Alas, read down through the past and weep for what once was.
>
> Player Points
>
> 2003-2004
>
> 1 Martin St. Louis, Tampa Bay...... 94
> 2 Joe Sakic, Colorado.............. 87
> 2 Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta.......... 87
> 4 Markus Naslund, Vancouver........ 84
> 5 Marian Hossa, Ottawa............. 82
> 6 Patrik Elias, New Jersey......... 81
> 7 Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa........ 80
> 7 Cory Stillman, Tampa Bay......... 80
> 9 Alex Tanguay, Colorado........... 79
> 9 Robert Lang, 2 teams............. 79
> 9 Brad Richards, Tampa Bay......... 79
>
>
> 1985-1986- Defenseman gets 138 pts!
>
> 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........215
> 2 Mario Lemieux, Pittsburgh........141
> 3 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............138
> 4 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............131
> 5 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........123
> 6 Peter Stastny, Quebec............122
> 7 Denis Savard, Chicago............116
> 8 Mats Naslund, Mtl. Canadiens.....110
> 9 Neal Broten, Minnesota...........105
> 9 Dale Hawerchuk, Winnipeg.........105
>
>
>
>
> 1984-1985
>
> 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........208
> 2 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............135
> 3 Dale Hawerchuk, Winnipeg.........130
> 4 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......126
> 5 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............121
> 6 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........117
> 7 Denis Savard, Chicago............105
> 7 John Ogrodnick, Detroit..........105
> 9 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........103
> 10 Mike Gartner, Washington.........102
> 10 Brent Sutter, NY Islanders.......102
>
>
> 1983-1984
>
> 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........205
> 2 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............126
> 3 Michel Goulet, Quebec............121
> 4 Peter Stastny, Quebec............119
> 5 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........118
> 6 Barry Pederson, Boston...........116
> 7 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............113
> 8 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....111
> 9 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........107
> 10 Rick Middleton, Boston...........105
>
>
> 1981-1982
>
> 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........212
> 2 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........147
> 3 Peter Stastny, Quebec............139
> 4 Dennis Maruk, Washington.........136
> 5 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....129
> 6 Denis Savard, Chicago............119
> 7 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......117
> 8 Bobby Smith, Minnesota...........114
> 9 Dino Ciccarelli, Minnesota.......106
> 9 Dave Taylor, Los Angeles.........106
>
> 1978-1979 - No Gretzky or Oilers!
>
> 1 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....134
> 2 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......130
> 3 Guy Lafleur, Mtl. Canadiens......129
> 4 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........126
> 5 Bob MacMillan, Atlanta...........108
> 6 Guy Chouinard, Atlanta...........107
> 7 Denis Potvin, NY Islanders.......101
> 8 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........ 95
> 9 Clark Gillies, NY Islanders...... 91
> 9 Dave Taylor, Los Angeles......... 91
>
>
>
> 1970-1971 - Defenseman 139 points!!!!!
>
> 1 Phil Esposito, Boston............152
> 2 Bobby Orr, Boston................139
> 3 Johnny Bucyk, Boston.............116
> 4 Ken Hodge, Boston................105
> 5 Bobby Hull, Chicago.............. 96
> 6 Norm Ullman, Toronto............. 85
> 7 Wayne Cashman, Boston............ 79
> 8 John McKenzie, Boston............ 77
> 9 Dave Keon, Toronto............... 76
> 9 Fred Stanfield, Boston........... 76
> 9 Jean Beliveau, Mtl. Canadiens.... 76
>
>
> 1969-1970 - Defenseman Wins The Scoring Race !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> 1 Bobby Orr, Boston................120
> 2 Phil Esposito, Boston............ 99
> 3 Stan Mikita, Chicago............. 86
> 4 Phil Goyette, St. Louis.......... 78
> 5 Walt Tkaczuk, NY Rangers......... 77
> 6 Jean Ratelle, NY Rangers......... 74
> 7 Jean-Paul Parise, Minnesota...... 72
> 7 Gordon Berenson, St. Louis....... 72
> 9 Gordie Howe, Detroit............. 71
> 10 Dave Balon, NY Rangers........... 70
> 10 John McKenzie, Boston............ 70
> 10 Frank Mahovlich, Detroit......... 70

Hey.

If you think NHL is borning you should try living in the UK like I do and
watch the BNL and Elite League?


"I R Canuck" <direct_your_NOSPAManger@NOSPAMpopstar.com> wrote in message
news:Jkbhc.37064$mn3.15748@clgrps13...
> "Achmuud" <hank@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:190420042111026789%hank@netscape.net...
> >
> > NHL Hockey has become a whack & hack, clutch & grab sport.
> >
> > I don't have the answer, but the NHL has a big problem. Holding,
> > hooking, slashing, tackling is no longer penalized. The bigger and
> > stronger players now prevail in a game that was once fantastic.
>
> I entirely blame the crackdown on fighting. It used to be that if
> someone was playing clutch and grab with your star, your big
> guy would drop the gloves and he'd stop.
>
> Illustration:
>
> Dale Hunter (flames) is doing the clutch and grab with Gretzky
> (oilers). Dave Semenko steps out onto the ice, drops the gloves
> with Hunter and nobody plays clutch and grab with Gretzky for
> the rest of the game. Not because they don't want a penalty
> but because they don't want to get SemenKO'd.
>
> > Alas, read down through the past and weep for what once was.
>
> I also think that the points may have something to do with the
> spreading of talent.
> more teams + same amount of talent = less talent per team.
>
> > Player Points
> >
> > 2003-2004
> >
> > 1 Martin St. Louis, Tampa Bay...... 94
> > 2 Joe Sakic, Colorado.............. 87
> > 2 Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta.......... 87
> > 4 Markus Naslund, Vancouver........ 84
> > 5 Marian Hossa, Ottawa............. 82
> > 6 Patrik Elias, New Jersey......... 81
> > 7 Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa........ 80
> > 7 Cory Stillman, Tampa Bay......... 80
> > 9 Alex Tanguay, Colorado........... 79
> > 9 Robert Lang, 2 teams............. 79
> > 9 Brad Richards, Tampa Bay......... 79
> >
> >
> > 1985-1986- Defenseman gets 138 pts!
> >
> > 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........215
> > 2 Mario Lemieux, Pittsburgh........141
> > 3 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............138
> > 4 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............131
> > 5 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........123
> > 6 Peter Stastny, Quebec............122
> > 7 Denis Savard, Chicago............116
> > 8 Mats Naslund, Mtl. Canadiens.....110
> > 9 Neal Broten, Minnesota...........105
> > 9 Dale Hawerchuk, Winnipeg.........105
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 1984-1985
> >
> > 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........208
> > 2 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............135
> > 3 Dale Hawerchuk, Winnipeg.........130
> > 4 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......126
> > 5 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............121
> > 6 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........117
> > 7 Denis Savard, Chicago............105
> > 7 John Ogrodnick, Detroit..........105
> > 9 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........103
> > 10 Mike Gartner, Washington.........102
> > 10 Brent Sutter, NY Islanders.......102
> >
> >
> > 1983-1984
> >
> > 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........205
> > 2 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............126
> > 3 Michel Goulet, Quebec............121
> > 4 Peter Stastny, Quebec............119
> > 5 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........118
> > 6 Barry Pederson, Boston...........116
> > 7 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............113
> > 8 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....111
> > 9 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........107
> > 10 Rick Middleton, Boston...........105
> >
> >
> > 1981-1982
> >
> > 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........212
> > 2 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........147
> > 3 Peter Stastny, Quebec............139
> > 4 Dennis Maruk, Washington.........136
> > 5 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....129
> > 6 Denis Savard, Chicago............119
> > 7 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......117
> > 8 Bobby Smith, Minnesota...........114
> > 9 Dino Ciccarelli, Minnesota.......106
> > 9 Dave Taylor, Los Angeles.........106
> >
> > 1978-1979 - No Gretzky or Oilers!
> >
> > 1 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....134
> > 2 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......130
> > 3 Guy Lafleur, Mtl. Canadiens......129
> > 4 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........126
> > 5 Bob MacMillan, Atlanta...........108
> > 6 Guy Chouinard, Atlanta...........107
> > 7 Denis Potvin, NY Islanders.......101
> > 8 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........ 95
> > 9 Clark Gillies, NY Islanders...... 91
> > 9 Dave Taylor, Los Angeles......... 91
> >
> >
> >
> > 1970-1971 - Defenseman 139 points!!!!!
> >
> > 1 Phil Esposito, Boston............152
> > 2 Bobby Orr, Boston................139
> > 3 Johnny Bucyk, Boston.............116
> > 4 Ken Hodge, Boston................105
> > 5 Bobby Hull, Chicago.............. 96
> > 6 Norm Ullman, Toronto............. 85
> > 7 Wayne Cashman, Boston............ 79
> > 8 John McKenzie, Boston............ 77
> > 9 Dave Keon, Toronto............... 76
> > 9 Fred Stanfield, Boston........... 76
> > 9 Jean Beliveau, Mtl. Canadiens.... 76
> >
> >
> > 1969-1970 - Defenseman Wins The Scoring Race !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > 1 Bobby Orr, Boston................120
> > 2 Phil Esposito, Boston............ 99
> > 3 Stan Mikita, Chicago............. 86
> > 4 Phil Goyette, St. Louis.......... 78
> > 5 Walt Tkaczuk, NY Rangers......... 77
> > 6 Jean Ratelle, NY Rangers......... 74
> > 7 Jean-Paul Parise, Minnesota...... 72
> > 7 Gordon Berenson, St. Louis....... 72
> > 9 Gordie Howe, Detroit............. 71
> > 10 Dave Balon, NY Rangers........... 70
> > 10 John McKenzie, Boston............ 70
> > 10 Frank Mahovlich, Detroit......... 70
>
>

Martin St. Louis is shown at http://www.tampabaylightning.com

as 5'9", 185 lbs.

You are correct. He is not big by current standards. But he only got
94 points. If the brutes weren't whacking, hacking, holding, tripping,
or tackling him - who knows - maybe he would get 200 points!

No doubt larger goalie equipment is reducing goals too.

Rules are not enforced as they once were. The larger, slower players
are allowed to impede the quicker and more talented players with
impunity. The NHL knows this.

Just my opinion. It would interesting to hear from older fans on this
topic. I've only been watching the game since the mid 60's.

Thanks for your input.

In article
<Pvgkc.33609$huU.32630@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.r ogers.com>, TML Fan
<tml_fan@rogers.com> wrote:

> you stated " The bigger and
> stronger players now prevail in a game that was once fantastic."
>
> look at how big the #1 player is for player points pal.
>
>
> "Achmuud" <hank@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:190420042111026789%hank@netscape.net...
> >
> > NHL Hockey has become a whack & hack, clutch & grab sport.
> >
> > I don't have the answer, but the NHL has a big problem. Holding,
> > hooking, slashing, tackling is no longer penalized. The bigger and
> > stronger players now prevail in a game that was once fantastic.
> >
> > Alas, read down through the past and weep for what once was.
> >
> > Player Points
> >
> > 2003-2004
> >
> > 1 Martin St. Louis, Tampa Bay...... 94
> > 2 Joe Sakic, Colorado.............. 87
> > 2 Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta.......... 87
> > 4 Markus Naslund, Vancouver........ 84
> > 5 Marian Hossa, Ottawa............. 82
> > 6 Patrik Elias, New Jersey......... 81
> > 7 Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa........ 80
> > 7 Cory Stillman, Tampa Bay......... 80
> > 9 Alex Tanguay, Colorado........... 79
> > 9 Robert Lang, 2 teams............. 79
> > 9 Brad Richards, Tampa Bay......... 79
> >
> >
> > 1985-1986- Defenseman gets 138 pts!
> >
> > 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........215
> > 2 Mario Lemieux, Pittsburgh........141
> > 3 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............138
> > 4 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............131
> > 5 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........123
> > 6 Peter Stastny, Quebec............122
> > 7 Denis Savard, Chicago............116
> > 8 Mats Naslund, Mtl. Canadiens.....110
> > 9 Neal Broten, Minnesota...........105
> > 9 Dale Hawerchuk, Winnipeg.........105
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 1984-1985
> >
> > 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........208
> > 2 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............135
> > 3 Dale Hawerchuk, Winnipeg.........130
> > 4 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......126
> > 5 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............121
> > 6 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........117
> > 7 Denis Savard, Chicago............105
> > 7 John Ogrodnick, Detroit..........105
> > 9 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........103
> > 10 Mike Gartner, Washington.........102
> > 10 Brent Sutter, NY Islanders.......102
> >
> >
> > 1983-1984
> >
> > 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........205
> > 2 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............126
> > 3 Michel Goulet, Quebec............121
> > 4 Peter Stastny, Quebec............119
> > 5 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........118
> > 6 Barry Pederson, Boston...........116
> > 7 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............113
> > 8 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....111
> > 9 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........107
> > 10 Rick Middleton, Boston...........105
> >
> >
> > 1981-1982
> >
> > 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........212
> > 2 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........147
> > 3 Peter Stastny, Quebec............139
> > 4 Dennis Maruk, Washington.........136
> > 5 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....129
> > 6 Denis Savard, Chicago............119
> > 7 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......117
> > 8 Bobby Smith, Minnesota...........114
> > 9 Dino Ciccarelli, Minnesota.......106
> > 9 Dave Taylor, Los Angeles.........106
> >
> > 1978-1979 - No Gretzky or Oilers!
> >
> > 1 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....134
> > 2 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......130
> > 3 Guy Lafleur, Mtl. Canadiens......129
> > 4 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........126
> > 5 Bob MacMillan, Atlanta...........108
> > 6 Guy Chouinard, Atlanta...........107
> > 7 Denis Potvin, NY Islanders.......101
> > 8 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........ 95
> > 9 Clark Gillies, NY Islanders...... 91
> > 9 Dave Taylor, Los Angeles......... 91
> >
> >
> >
> > 1970-1971 - Defenseman 139 points!!!!!
> >
> > 1 Phil Esposito, Boston............152
> > 2 Bobby Orr, Boston................139
> > 3 Johnny Bucyk, Boston.............116
> > 4 Ken Hodge, Boston................105
> > 5 Bobby Hull, Chicago.............. 96
> > 6 Norm Ullman, Toronto............. 85
> > 7 Wayne Cashman, Boston............ 79
> > 8 John McKenzie, Boston............ 77
> > 9 Dave Keon, Toronto............... 76
> > 9 Fred Stanfield, Boston........... 76
> > 9 Jean Beliveau, Mtl. Canadiens.... 76
> >
> >
> > 1969-1970 - Defenseman Wins The Scoring Race !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > 1 Bobby Orr, Boston................120
> > 2 Phil Esposito, Boston............ 99
> > 3 Stan Mikita, Chicago............. 86
> > 4 Phil Goyette, St. Louis.......... 78
> > 5 Walt Tkaczuk, NY Rangers......... 77
> > 6 Jean Ratelle, NY Rangers......... 74
> > 7 Jean-Paul Parise, Minnesota...... 72
> > 7 Gordon Berenson, St. Louis....... 72
> > 9 Gordie Howe, Detroit............. 71
> > 10 Dave Balon, NY Rangers........... 70
> > 10 John McKenzie, Boston............ 70
> > 10 Frank Mahovlich, Detroit......... 70
>
>

Yeah, most of them are less talented than the NHLers. But I usually
get more joy out watching amateurs and minor leaguers than the NHL.
Especially live - the rinks are smaller, so you're closer to the
action. The players often have more passion. And the beer is cheaper
too!

In article <c7kuig$6fg$1@hercules.btinternet.com>, Sean Smith
<sean.d.smith@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Hey.
>
> If you think NHL is borning you should try living in the UK like I do and
> watch the BNL and Elite League?
>
>
> "I R Canuck" <direct_your_NOSPAManger@NOSPAMpopstar.com> wrote in message
> news:Jkbhc.37064$mn3.15748@clgrps13...
> > "Achmuud" <hank@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:190420042111026789%hank@netscape.net...
> > >
> > > NHL Hockey has become a whack & hack, clutch & grab sport.
> > >
> > > I don't have the answer, but the NHL has a big problem. Holding,
> > > hooking, slashing, tackling is no longer penalized. The bigger and
> > > stronger players now prevail in a game that was once fantastic.
> >
> > I entirely blame the crackdown on fighting. It used to be that if
> > someone was playing clutch and grab with your star, your big
> > guy would drop the gloves and he'd stop.
> >
> > Illustration:
> >
> > Dale Hunter (flames) is doing the clutch and grab with Gretzky
> > (oilers). Dave Semenko steps out onto the ice, drops the gloves
> > with Hunter and nobody plays clutch and grab with Gretzky for
> > the rest of the game. Not because they don't want a penalty
> > but because they don't want to get SemenKO'd.
> >
> > > Alas, read down through the past and weep for what once was.
> >
> > I also think that the points may have something to do with the
> > spreading of talent.
> > more teams + same amount of talent = less talent per team.
> >
> > > Player Points
> > >
> > > 2003-2004
> > >
> > > 1 Martin St. Louis, Tampa Bay...... 94
> > > 2 Joe Sakic, Colorado.............. 87
> > > 2 Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta.......... 87
> > > 4 Markus Naslund, Vancouver........ 84
> > > 5 Marian Hossa, Ottawa............. 82
> > > 6 Patrik Elias, New Jersey......... 81
> > > 7 Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa........ 80
> > > 7 Cory Stillman, Tampa Bay......... 80
> > > 9 Alex Tanguay, Colorado........... 79
> > > 9 Robert Lang, 2 teams............. 79
> > > 9 Brad Richards, Tampa Bay......... 79
> > >
> > >
> > > 1985-1986- Defenseman gets 138 pts!
> > >
> > > 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........215
> > > 2 Mario Lemieux, Pittsburgh........141
> > > 3 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............138
> > > 4 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............131
> > > 5 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........123
> > > 6 Peter Stastny, Quebec............122
> > > 7 Denis Savard, Chicago............116
> > > 8 Mats Naslund, Mtl. Canadiens.....110
> > > 9 Neal Broten, Minnesota...........105
> > > 9 Dale Hawerchuk, Winnipeg.........105
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 1984-1985
> > >
> > > 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........208
> > > 2 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............135
> > > 3 Dale Hawerchuk, Winnipeg.........130
> > > 4 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......126
> > > 5 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............121
> > > 6 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........117
> > > 7 Denis Savard, Chicago............105
> > > 7 John Ogrodnick, Detroit..........105
> > > 9 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........103
> > > 10 Mike Gartner, Washington.........102
> > > 10 Brent Sutter, NY Islanders.......102
> > >
> > >
> > > 1983-1984
> > >
> > > 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........205
> > > 2 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............126
> > > 3 Michel Goulet, Quebec............121
> > > 4 Peter Stastny, Quebec............119
> > > 5 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........118
> > > 6 Barry Pederson, Boston...........116
> > > 7 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............113
> > > 8 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....111
> > > 9 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........107
> > > 10 Rick Middleton, Boston...........105
> > >
> > >
> > > 1981-1982
> > >
> > > 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........212
> > > 2 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........147
> > > 3 Peter Stastny, Quebec............139
> > > 4 Dennis Maruk, Washington.........136
> > > 5 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....129
> > > 6 Denis Savard, Chicago............119
> > > 7 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......117
> > > 8 Bobby Smith, Minnesota...........114
> > > 9 Dino Ciccarelli, Minnesota.......106
> > > 9 Dave Taylor, Los Angeles.........106
> > >
> > > 1978-1979 - No Gretzky or Oilers!
> > >
> > > 1 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....134
> > > 2 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......130
> > > 3 Guy Lafleur, Mtl. Canadiens......129
> > > 4 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........126
> > > 5 Bob MacMillan, Atlanta...........108
> > > 6 Guy Chouinard, Atlanta...........107
> > > 7 Denis Potvin, NY Islanders.......101
> > > 8 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........ 95
> > > 9 Clark Gillies, NY Islanders...... 91
> > > 9 Dave Taylor, Los Angeles......... 91
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 1970-1971 - Defenseman 139 points!!!!!
> > >
> > > 1 Phil Esposito, Boston............152
> > > 2 Bobby Orr, Boston................139
> > > 3 Johnny Bucyk, Boston.............116
> > > 4 Ken Hodge, Boston................105
> > > 5 Bobby Hull, Chicago.............. 96
> > > 6 Norm Ullman, Toronto............. 85
> > > 7 Wayne Cashman, Boston............ 79
> > > 8 John McKenzie, Boston............ 77
> > > 9 Dave Keon, Toronto............... 76
> > > 9 Fred Stanfield, Boston........... 76
> > > 9 Jean Beliveau, Mtl. Canadiens.... 76
> > >
> > >
> > > 1969-1970 - Defenseman Wins The Scoring Race !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > > 1 Bobby Orr, Boston................120
> > > 2 Phil Esposito, Boston............ 99
> > > 3 Stan Mikita, Chicago............. 86
> > > 4 Phil Goyette, St. Louis.......... 78
> > > 5 Walt Tkaczuk, NY Rangers......... 77
> > > 6 Jean Ratelle, NY Rangers......... 74
> > > 7 Jean-Paul Parise, Minnesota...... 72
> > > 7 Gordon Berenson, St. Louis....... 72
> > > 9 Gordie Howe, Detroit............. 71
> > > 10 Dave Balon, NY Rangers........... 70
> > > 10 John McKenzie, Boston............ 70
> > > 10 Frank Mahovlich, Detroit......... 70
> >
> >
>
>

That is indeed true

I habe also noticed that in the Elite league there is a good relationship
between the players and the fans. Offers of accomodation in Canada, things
like that.

Its great.

Cant wait for the season to start again!!!!

"Achmuud" <hank@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:150520040914125879%hank@netscape.net...
>
> Yeah, most of them are less talented than the NHLers. But I usually
> get more joy out watching amateurs and minor leaguers than the NHL.
> Especially live - the rinks are smaller, so you're closer to the
> action. The players often have more passion. And the beer is cheaper
> too!
>
> In article <c7kuig$6fg$1@hercules.btinternet.com>, Sean Smith
> <sean.d.smith@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey.
> >
> > If you think NHL is borning you should try living in the UK like I do
and
> > watch the BNL and Elite League?
> >
> >
> > "I R Canuck" <direct_your_NOSPAManger@NOSPAMpopstar.com> wrote in
message
> > news:Jkbhc.37064$mn3.15748@clgrps13...
> > > "Achmuud" <hank@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > news:190420042111026789%hank@netscape.net...
> > > >
> > > > NHL Hockey has become a whack & hack, clutch & grab sport.
> > > >
> > > > I don't have the answer, but the NHL has a big problem. Holding,
> > > > hooking, slashing, tackling is no longer penalized. The bigger and
> > > > stronger players now prevail in a game that was once fantastic.
> > >
> > > I entirely blame the crackdown on fighting. It used to be that if
> > > someone was playing clutch and grab with your star, your big
> > > guy would drop the gloves and he'd stop.
> > >
> > > Illustration:
> > >
> > > Dale Hunter (flames) is doing the clutch and grab with Gretzky
> > > (oilers). Dave Semenko steps out onto the ice, drops the gloves
> > > with Hunter and nobody plays clutch and grab with Gretzky for
> > > the rest of the game. Not because they don't want a penalty
> > > but because they don't want to get SemenKO'd.
> > >
> > > > Alas, read down through the past and weep for what once was.
> > >
> > > I also think that the points may have something to do with the
> > > spreading of talent.
> > > more teams + same amount of talent = less talent per team.
> > >
> > > > Player Points
> > > >
> > > > 2003-2004
> > > >
> > > > 1 Martin St. Louis, Tampa Bay...... 94
> > > > 2 Joe Sakic, Colorado.............. 87
> > > > 2 Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta.......... 87
> > > > 4 Markus Naslund, Vancouver........ 84
> > > > 5 Marian Hossa, Ottawa............. 82
> > > > 6 Patrik Elias, New Jersey......... 81
> > > > 7 Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa........ 80
> > > > 7 Cory Stillman, Tampa Bay......... 80
> > > > 9 Alex Tanguay, Colorado........... 79
> > > > 9 Robert Lang, 2 teams............. 79
> > > > 9 Brad Richards, Tampa Bay......... 79
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1985-1986- Defenseman gets 138 pts!
> > > >
> > > > 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........215
> > > > 2 Mario Lemieux, Pittsburgh........141
> > > > 3 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............138
> > > > 4 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............131
> > > > 5 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........123
> > > > 6 Peter Stastny, Quebec............122
> > > > 7 Denis Savard, Chicago............116
> > > > 8 Mats Naslund, Mtl. Canadiens.....110
> > > > 9 Neal Broten, Minnesota...........105
> > > > 9 Dale Hawerchuk, Winnipeg.........105
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1984-1985
> > > >
> > > > 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........208
> > > > 2 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............135
> > > > 3 Dale Hawerchuk, Winnipeg.........130
> > > > 4 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......126
> > > > 5 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............121
> > > > 6 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........117
> > > > 7 Denis Savard, Chicago............105
> > > > 7 John Ogrodnick, Detroit..........105
> > > > 9 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........103
> > > > 10 Mike Gartner, Washington.........102
> > > > 10 Brent Sutter, NY Islanders.......102
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1983-1984
> > > >
> > > > 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........205
> > > > 2 Paul Coffey, Edmonton............126
> > > > 3 Michel Goulet, Quebec............121
> > > > 4 Peter Stastny, Quebec............119
> > > > 5 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........118
> > > > 6 Barry Pederson, Boston...........116
> > > > 7 Jari Kurri, Edmonton.............113
> > > > 8 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....111
> > > > 9 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........107
> > > > 10 Rick Middleton, Boston...........105
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1981-1982
> > > >
> > > > 1 Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton..........212
> > > > 2 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........147
> > > > 3 Peter Stastny, Quebec............139
> > > > 4 Dennis Maruk, Washington.........136
> > > > 5 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....129
> > > > 6 Denis Savard, Chicago............119
> > > > 7 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......117
> > > > 8 Bobby Smith, Minnesota...........114
> > > > 9 Dino Ciccarelli, Minnesota.......106
> > > > 9 Dave Taylor, Los Angeles.........106
> > > >
> > > > 1978-1979 - No Gretzky or Oilers!
> > > >
> > > > 1 Bryan Trottier, NY Islanders.....134
> > > > 2 Marcel Dionne, Los Angeles.......130
> > > > 3 Guy Lafleur, Mtl. Canadiens......129
> > > > 4 Mike Bossy, NY Islanders.........126
> > > > 5 Bob MacMillan, Atlanta...........108
> > > > 6 Guy Chouinard, Atlanta...........107
> > > > 7 Denis Potvin, NY Islanders.......101
> > > > 8 Bernie Federko, St. Louis........ 95
> > > > 9 Clark Gillies, NY Islanders...... 91
> > > > 9 Dave Taylor, Los Angeles......... 91
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1970-1971 - Defenseman 139 points!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > 1 Phil Esposito, Boston............152
> > > > 2 Bobby Orr, Boston................139
> > > > 3 Johnny Bucyk, Boston.............116
> > > > 4 Ken Hodge, Boston................105
> > > > 5 Bobby Hull, Chicago.............. 96
> > > > 6 Norm Ullman, Toronto............. 85
> > > > 7 Wayne Cashman, Boston............ 79
> > > > 8 John McKenzie, Boston............ 77
> > > > 9 Dave Keon, Toronto............... 76
> > > > 9 Fred Stanfield, Boston........... 76
> > > > 9 Jean Beliveau, Mtl. Canadiens.... 76
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1969-1970 - Defenseman Wins The Scoring Race !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > 1 Bobby Orr, Boston................120
> > > > 2 Phil Esposito, Boston............ 99
> > > > 3 Stan Mikita, Chicago............. 86
> > > > 4 Phil Goyette, St. Louis.......... 78
> > > > 5 Walt Tkaczuk, NY Rangers......... 77
> > > > 6 Jean Ratelle, NY Rangers......... 74
> > > > 7 Jean-Paul Parise, Minnesota...... 72
> > > > 7 Gordon Berenson, St. Louis....... 72
> > > > 9 Gordie Howe, Detroit............. 71
> > > > 10 Dave Balon, NY Rangers........... 70
> > > > 10 John McKenzie, Boston............ 70
> > > > 10 Frank Mahovlich, Detroit......... 70
> > >
> > >
> >
> >