German army in new racism row

[Manchu34]

BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- A video showing a German army instructor telling one of his soldiers to envision African-Americans in the Bronx while firing his machine gun was broadcast Saturday on national television.

The video, coming after scandals involving photos of German soldiers posing with skulls in Afghanistan and the abuse of recruits by instructors, seemed likely to raise more questions about training practices in Germany's conscript army.

"We can no longer talk about an isolated case," said Lt. Juergen Rose of the Darmstaedter Signal, a group of current and former army officers and sergeants who independently review military procedures.

"Things like this don't happen in the army on an everyday basis, but unfortunately in recent years there have been a number of comparable incidents."

The Defense Ministry said the video was shot in July 2006 at barracks in the northern town of Rendsburg and that the army has been aware of it since January.

"We are currently investigating the incident," said Florian Naggies, a spokesman for the army and Defense Ministry.

He did not identify the instructor or the soldier, who are shown in camouflage uniforms in a forest.

The instructor tells the soldier, "You are in the Bronx. A black van is stopping in front of you. Three African-Americans are getting out and they are insulting your mother in the worst ways ... Act."

The soldier fires his machine gun several times and yells an obscenity several times in English. The instructor then tells the soldier to curse even louder.
The existence of the video was first reported on the home page of the German news magazine Stern on Friday and excerpts of the video were aired on the news television channel n-tv on Saturday.

According to Stern, the 90-second video had been posted on a Web site used by soldiers to exchange private videos. A soldier who used the site alerted his superiors, the magazine reported.

The video is the latest embarrassment for the German army. Eighteen army instructors are currently on trial for allegedly abusing and humiliating 163 recruits in 2004. Last year, newspapers published photos of German soldiers in Afghanistan posing with a skulls -- including one who exposed himself while holding a skull.


Source: German army in new racism row - CNN.com

[Woodmonkey]

Not good. It just takes a few to make all of them look bad as we learned with a couple of incidents in Iraq.

[cato2]

Nationalism is not removed in one or two generations. This behavior may not be pronounced, but it remains within the culture. Given the right conditions and it will return.

If you are familiar with the Milgram experiments you are aware that our culture has this embedded as well.

"The aftermath of the Holocaust and the events leading up to World War II, the world was stunned with the happenings in Nazi German and their acquired surrounding territories that came out during the Eichmann Trials. Eichmann, a high ranking official of the Nazi Party, was on trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity. The questions is, "Could it be that Eichmann, and his million accomplices in the Holocaust were just following orders? Could we call them all accomplices?"

Stanley Milgram answered the call to this problem by performing a series of studies on the Obedience to Authority.

Milgram's work began at Harvard where he was working towards his Ph.D. The experiments on which his initial research was based were done at Yale from 1961-1962."

"Today the field of psychology would deem this study highly unethical but, it revealed some extremely important findings. The theory that only the most severe monsters on the sadistic fringe of society would submit to such cruelty is disclaimed. Findings show that, "two-thirds of this studies participants fall into the category of ‘obedient' subjects, and that they represent ordinary people drawn from the working, managerial, and professional classes (Obedience to Authority)." Ultimately 65% of all of the "teachers" punished the "learners" to the maximum 450 volts. No subject stopped before reaching 300 volts!"

[Woodmonkey]

Originally Posted by cato2

Nationalism is not removed in one or two generations. This behavior may not be pronounced, but it remains within the culture. Given the right conditions and it will return.

Don't forget that they reunited with East Germany which never did deal with their racism or hatreds. I wonder how much of this, and other incidents in the news, can be traced to the reunification?

[cato2]

The trait is it seems in bedded with many nationalities. But I understand I think the direction your thinking. Both East and West probably would test the same in the Milgram experiment, both sides would have the same percentage willing. So it boils down to the leadership and their direction taken.

[Woodmonkey]

Originally Posted by cato2

The trait is it seems in bedded with many nationalities. But I understand I think the direction your thinking. Both East and West probably would test the same in the Milgram experiment, both sides would have the same percentage willing. So it boils down to the leadership and their direction taken.

You are sort of there. The people who were very young, or born after WW2, in West Germany were raised with a different mind set. They were forced to deal with their anti-Semitism and general racism. Those in East Germany continued on with their anti-Semitism and other racism - nothing changed there for them.

When they were reunited after the Fall of the Soviet Union, they brought those attitudes with them and re-seeded them into the German psyche.