Front Disc Brakes - 2 Questions

Hello,
I just replaced the brake pads on my mom's '91 Plymouth Sundance.
The brake pedal would reach the floor when I finished,so of course
I bled the brakes.Now I get like an inch and a half of pedal travel.
It looked like they bled any and all air out.Looked real good.

BUT,when I start the engine the pedal will slowly reach the floor.So I
bled
with the engine on this time.Same result.(engine off=looks good,engine
on=
pedal will reach floor, but will stop the car)
I drove the car to rest the brakes and the car WILL stop normally.
I went up to 40 mph and tried to slam brakes and got a good stop.
My question's are:
Did I miss something?Is there a bleeding order(sequence)?
tia,
Aaron

"hoomahaw" <hoomahaw@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:40DE25C7.A5F90115@pacbell.net...
> Hello,
> I just replaced the brake pads on my mom's '91 Plymouth Sundance.
> The brake pedal would reach the floor when I finished,so of course
> I bled the brakes.Now I get like an inch and a half of pedal travel.
> It looked like they bled any and all air out.Looked real good.
>
> BUT,when I start the engine the pedal will slowly reach the floor.So I
> bled
> with the engine on this time.Same result.(engine off=looks good,engine
> on=
> pedal will reach floor, but will stop the car)
> I drove the car to rest the brakes and the car WILL stop normally.
> I went up to 40 mph and tried to slam brakes and got a good stop.
> My question's are:
> Did I miss something?Is there a bleeding order(sequence)?
> tia,
> Aaron
>
>

The correct order or the right front then left front when doing just the
front. When doing all start at the right rear, then left rear, right front
then left front.

Your brakes may be fine now. I assume that it's power brakes, and when your
at a stand still with the motor running you can probably get the pedal near
the floor by press as hard as you can. That's normal, if you try it with the
motor off it will be hard as a rock.

Brian

If anything, it could be that your master cylinder needs to be
rebuilt/replaced as the rubber seals on the main piston could be leaking by.
In some cars, the pedal eventually reaching the floor is normal.


"hoomahaw" <hoomahaw@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:40DE25C7.A5F90115@pacbell.net...
> Hello,
> I just replaced the brake pads on my mom's '91 Plymouth Sundance.
> The brake pedal would reach the floor when I finished,so of course
> I bled the brakes.Now I get like an inch and a half of pedal travel.
> It looked like they bled any and all air out.Looked real good.
>
> BUT,when I start the engine the pedal will slowly reach the floor.So I
> bled
> with the engine on this time.Same result.(engine off=looks good,engine
> on=
> pedal will reach floor, but will stop the car)
> I drove the car to rest the brakes and the car WILL stop normally.
> I went up to 40 mph and tried to slam brakes and got a good stop.
> My question's are:
> Did I miss something?Is there a bleeding order(sequence)?
> tia,
> Aaron
>
>

Normally you start bleeding at the wheel farthest away from the master.
Rear passenger, then rear drivers then front passenger, then front
drivers side.

I don't know what the other two posters are on, but no, your brakes are
not normal or safe to use like that.

If you can't get the air out yourself, you need to take it to a pro to
have the job finished.

You 'really' should 'not' have needed to bleed the brakes, so something
is big time messed up. The 'only' time you 'need' to bleed the brakes
is if you changed a caliper or wheel cylinder.

Did you forget to tighten the wheel bearing? If so, the wobble will
push the brake caliper in so the first shot on the pedal goes to the
floor.

Did you change the rear pads or shoes? If so, they are way out of
adjustment now. This will give you a very low brake pedal. 'Most' of
them need to be adjusted by hand first, then the automatic adjusters
kick in.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

hoomahaw wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I just replaced the brake pads on my mom's '91 Plymouth Sundance.
> The brake pedal would reach the floor when I finished,so of course
> I bled the brakes.Now I get like an inch and a half of pedal travel.
> It looked like they bled any and all air out.Looked real good.
>
> BUT,when I start the engine the pedal will slowly reach the floor.So I
> bled
> with the engine on this time.Same result.(engine off=looks good,engine
> on=
> pedal will reach floor, but will stop the car)
> I drove the car to rest the brakes and the car WILL stop normally.
> I went up to 40 mph and tried to slam brakes and got a good stop.
> My question's are:
> Did I miss something?Is there a bleeding order(sequence)?
> tia,
> Aaron

Actually I'm on facts. Most cars with a vacuum power assist you can put the
peddle near the floor at a stand still with the motor running. Go try it on
your car.
That's why your supposed to bleed them with the motor off. So you can tell
when you have a firm peddle.

Brian

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40DECDDA.76EC426F@sympatico.ca...
> Normally you start bleeding at the wheel farthest away from the master.
> Rear passenger, then rear drivers then front passenger, then front
> drivers side.
>
> I don't know what the other two posters are on, but no, your brakes are
> not normal or safe to use like that.
>
> If you can't get the air out yourself, you need to take it to a pro to
> have the job finished.
>
> You 'really' should 'not' have needed to bleed the brakes, so something
> is big time messed up. The 'only' time you 'need' to bleed the brakes
> is if you changed a caliper or wheel cylinder.
>
> Did you forget to tighten the wheel bearing? If so, the wobble will
> push the brake caliper in so the first shot on the pedal goes to the
> floor.
>
> Did you change the rear pads or shoes? If so, they are way out of
> adjustment now. This will give you a very low brake pedal. 'Most' of
> them need to be adjusted by hand first, then the automatic adjusters
> kick in.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> hoomahaw wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > I just replaced the brake pads on my mom's '91 Plymouth Sundance.
> > The brake pedal would reach the floor when I finished,so of course
> > I bled the brakes.Now I get like an inch and a half of pedal travel.
> > It looked like they bled any and all air out.Looked real good.
> >
> > BUT,when I start the engine the pedal will slowly reach the floor.So I
> > bled
> > with the engine on this time.Same result.(engine off=looks good,engine
> > on=
> > pedal will reach floor, but will stop the car)
> > I drove the car to rest the brakes and the car WILL stop normally.
> > I went up to 40 mph and tried to slam brakes and got a good stop.
> > My question's are:
> > Did I miss something?Is there a bleeding order(sequence)?
> > tia,
> > Aaron

In article <YM6dnV4ym_wfTkPdRVn-hQ@giganews.com>,
"el Diablo" <nomail@spam.not> wrote:

> Actually I'm on facts. Most cars with a vacuum power assist you can put the
> peddle near the floor at a stand still with the motor running. Go try it on
> your car.

In 35 years of doing brake repairs and maintenance, the only time
I've seen a brake pedal sink to the floor with the engine
running, there was a leak or the master cylinder was by-passing.

> That's why your supposed to bleed them with the motor off. So you can tell
> when you have a firm peddle.

I bleed with a power bleeder, when finished, I start the engine
and double check the pedal travel, if the brake pedal when
applied is lower than the gas pedal when not applied, there is a
problem which is then corrected.

The relationship to the brake pedal applied to the gas pedal not
applied thing is something I've picked up on over the years based
upon experience with brand new vehicles with no noted problems
with the brakes, either hydraulically or with the power assist.

If -your- brake pedal sinks to the floor with the engine running,
something has failed and needs to be diagnosed and corrected.

He is saying the brake pedal will reach the floor.

That is 'not' normal nor safe!

Mike

el Diablo wrote:
>
> Actually I'm on facts. Most cars with a vacuum power assist you can put the
> peddle near the floor at a stand still with the motor running. Go try it on
> your car.
> That's why your supposed to bleed them with the motor off. So you can tell
> when you have a firm peddle.
>
> Brian
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40DECDDA.76EC426F@sympatico.ca...
> > Normally you start bleeding at the wheel farthest away from the master.
> > Rear passenger, then rear drivers then front passenger, then front
> > drivers side.
> >
> > I don't know what the other two posters are on, but no, your brakes are
> > not normal or safe to use like that.
> >
> > If you can't get the air out yourself, you need to take it to a pro to
> > have the job finished.
> >
> > You 'really' should 'not' have needed to bleed the brakes, so something
> > is big time messed up. The 'only' time you 'need' to bleed the brakes
> > is if you changed a caliper or wheel cylinder.
> >
> > Did you forget to tighten the wheel bearing? If so, the wobble will
> > push the brake caliper in so the first shot on the pedal goes to the
> > floor.
> >
> > Did you change the rear pads or shoes? If so, they are way out of
> > adjustment now. This will give you a very low brake pedal. 'Most' of
> > them need to be adjusted by hand first, then the automatic adjusters
> > kick in.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > hoomahaw wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > I just replaced the brake pads on my mom's '91 Plymouth Sundance.
> > > The brake pedal would reach the floor when I finished,so of course
> > > I bled the brakes.Now I get like an inch and a half of pedal travel.
> > > It looked like they bled any and all air out.Looked real good.
> > >
> > > BUT,when I start the engine the pedal will slowly reach the floor.So I
> > > bled
> > > with the engine on this time.Same result.(engine off=looks good,engine
> > > on=
> > > pedal will reach floor, but will stop the car)
> > > I drove the car to rest the brakes and the car WILL stop normally.
> > > I went up to 40 mph and tried to slam brakes and got a good stop.
> > > My question's are:
> > > Did I miss something?Is there a bleeding order(sequence)?
> > > tia,
> > > Aaron