Intake Gasket Failure Question

My understanding is GM claims that the DexCool coolant is responsible for
intake Gasket Failures.
My understanding is also that the intake failures have been happening since
around the mid 1990's. Isnt that before they even started using Dexcool? If
I am wrong on that then I stand corrected. In any case if GM new that the
Dexcool was the problem then why didnt they just have a recall to drain the
dexcool and refill all the cars with the green stuff? Would this be because
GM would then be admitting to a known problem? The problem has been around
for 10 years unaddressed year after year. GM used to make some of may
favorite cars...Hotrod Chevelles, GTOs Camaros etc. But GM ....you done
changed. I just dont know if I still want to be your friend.

Jack L. Spratt wrote:

> My understanding is GM claims that the DexCool coolant is responsible for
> intake Gasket Failures.

On the contrary. GM says Dex-Cool is god's gift to man. They wouldn't
still use it otherwise. Any problem is the owner's fault for not
checking the coolant's quality with a refractometer often enough.
(according to the AC Delco guy that taught the last after-work training
seminar I attended.)
GW

Jack L. Spratt wrote:

> My understanding is GM claims that the DexCool coolant is responsible
> for intake Gasket Failures.

No, GM does not think that Dexcool has anything to do with
gasket failures. The intake gasket failure is due to a poor design
that relies on low clamp loads and the fact that a technician
ought to know how to torque bolts and use loctite in these
particular applications.

> My understanding is also that the intake failures have been happening
> since around the mid 1990's.

Intake gasket failures on GM 60 degree engines have been happening
since they started making the engines in the mid 80's. When they first came
out in
the X-bodies and A-bodies....we were doing intake gaskets all the
time. Same problem.....coolant would get in the engine oil. Different
style of gasket....same basic end result...coolant in oil. There has also
always been a problem with oil leakage from the RTV end gaskets.
This is due to two problems.....poor preparation of the surfaces by
the technicians....and the fact that RTV gaskets will inevitably leak
no matter what you do.

Ian

In article <YWA3e.3842$kk2.3241@twister.socal.rr.com>,
Geoff Welsh <geoffdubya@some.rr.com> wrote:

> Jack L. Spratt wrote:
>
> > My understanding is GM claims that the DexCool coolant is responsible for
> > intake Gasket Failures.
>
> On the contrary. GM says Dex-Cool is god's gift to man. They wouldn't
> still use it otherwise. Any problem is the owner's fault for not
> checking the coolant's quality with a refractometer often enough.
> (according to the AC Delco guy that taught the last after-work training
> seminar I attended.)
> GW

?????????

My refractometer only shows freeze point...

aarcuda69062 wrote:

> In article <YWA3e.3842$kk2.3241@twister.socal.rr.com>,
> Geoff Welsh <geoffdubya@some.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Jack L. Spratt wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My understanding is GM claims that the DexCool coolant is responsible for
>>>intake Gasket Failures.
>>
>>On the contrary. GM says Dex-Cool is god's gift to man. They wouldn't
>>still use it otherwise. Any problem is the owner's fault for not
>>checking the coolant's quality with a refractometer often enough.
>>(according to the AC Delco guy that taught the last after-work training
>>seminar I attended.)
>>GW
>
>
> ?????????
>
> My refractometer only shows freeze point...
Which would, of course, be higher if the Dex-Cool to water ratio was
higher or lower than ideal. The statement from the Delco rep, may or
may not be hogwash, but supposedly....
If the Dex-Cool to water mix is not within a few points of the 50-50
range, the mixture becomes VERY acidic, and THAT is the owners fault for
not maintaining the 50-50 mix, not the Dex-Cools fault. The main
dilution of the ideal mix comes from air in the system.
How does air get in? Bad radiator cap.
GM never said they were five year caps, just five year coolant.
GW

On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 1804 GMT, "shiden_kai"
<violet_lightening_modified@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Jack L. Spratt wrote:
>
>> My understanding is GM claims that the DexCool coolant is responsible
>> for intake Gasket Failures.
>
>No, GM does not think that Dexcool has anything to do with
>gasket failures. The intake gasket failure is due to a poor design
>that relies on low clamp loads and the fact that a technician
>ought to know how to torque bolts and use loctite in these
>particular applications.
>
>> My understanding is also that the intake failures have been happening
>> since around the mid 1990's.
>
>Intake gasket failures on GM 60 degree engines have been happening
>since they started making the engines in the mid 80's. When they first came
>out in
>the X-bodies and A-bodies....we were doing intake gaskets all the
>time. Same problem.....coolant would get in the engine oil. Different
>style of gasket....same basic end result...coolant in oil. There has also
>always been a problem with oil leakage from the RTV end gaskets.
>This is due to two problems.....poor preparation of the surfaces by
>the technicians....and the fact that RTV gaskets will inevitably leak
>no matter what you do.
>
>Ian
>
How can you blame it on the technicians or poor preparation on a
factory new engine? It is GM's fault - pure and simple. A design that
uses low clamping loads combined with gasket materials that cannot
seal under low clamp load conditions is poor design, no ifs, ands, or
buts about it.

Not fixing the root problem is the result of the bean counters looking
at the cost to repair the desihn vs the cost to repair under warranty,
taking the average lifespan into account.
Simply put, they figure it is cheaper to replace a few thousand
gaskets a year than to redisign the engine.

What they fail to take into account is the loss of sales due to
customer dis-satisfaction and anger.

And they wonder why they couldn't sell enough Oldsmobiles to make it
worth while retaining the marque - and now either Pontiac or Buick (or
possibly both) may well follow suite.

Used to be the cry was "kill all the lawyers".. Soon it will be "kill
all the accountants". Between accountants and lawyers, manufacturing
jobs are relentlessly being driven out of the USA , and close behind,
out of Canada as well.

When I was having problems I re-torqued the intake manifold bolts. There
were loose bolts. This seemed to have done the trick. This also worked on
the valve cover the oil pan and a part around the output shafts on the
transmission.


"Jack L. Spratt" <rburpee@cunn.com> wrote in message
news:114tlcfih7q0gb1@corp.supernews.com...
> My understanding is GM claims that the DexCool coolant is responsible for
> intake Gasket Failures.
> My understanding is also that the intake failures have been happening
since
> around the mid 1990's. Isnt that before they even started using Dexcool?
If
> I am wrong on that then I stand corrected. In any case if GM new that the
> Dexcool was the problem then why didnt they just have a recall to drain
the
> dexcool and refill all the cars with the green stuff? Would this be
because
> GM would then be admitting to a known problem? The problem has been around
> for 10 years unaddressed year after year. GM used to make some of may
> favorite cars...Hotrod Chevelles, GTOs Camaros etc. But GM ....you done
> changed. I just dont know if I still want to be your friend.
>
>