M1a1 and M109

[DaWiz]

Since you guys like to answer questions I 'll ask some more. did anyone see the M109 go up? what could have happened to cause it to burst into flames? and if my memory serves me right isnt the ammo carryed in a seprate vehicle? On to my other question when they say that the M1a1 crew is safe from all Nuclear attack what exactly does that mean?

[IrishEKU]

Originally Posted by DaWiz

Since you guys like to answer questions I 'll ask some more. did anyone see the M109 go up? what could have happened to cause it to burst into flames? and if my memory serves me right isnt the ammo carryed in a seprate vehicle? On to my other question when they say that the M1a1 crew is safe from all Nuclear attack what exactly does that mean?

Wheee! Someone asking great questions! 8)

Yes, I did see the footage of the Palidan going up and it was caused by a misfire, this can happen for a couple of reasons, least of all would be blockage of the barrel or bore. My best guess from seeing the flash at the barrel showing that the bore evacuator worked is that they had the wrong number bags for the powder charge required for the round they were firing. This will result in a "Pop and No Kick" or the round lodged in the barrel. When the breach in the compartment oppened, hot gas and unspent powder vented igniting the basic load that the vehicle carries.

O-K now on to your M-1 question, it is a reference to the NBC system carried on all M-1 series vehicles. The system charges a "Buttoned Up" vehicles atmosphere a few more psi than the outside atmosphere, hense if there is a leak in one of the seals, it forces air out said leak and prevents contaminante from getting in.

I'm just getting warmed up! Keep 'em comming! :twisted:

[Hannibal]

As far as ammo, the paladin carries some internal but there is another vehicle (that I think you are talking about) that follows it around. Irish what is that one? Something like a modern caisson.

The NBC system on the M1 is based on overpressure (think that is what Irish was talking about). It sucks in air through filters (NBC ones) and keeps the ait inside the tank clean and higher pressure than outside, thus ensuring no air getting inside. The bg problem with that system is that it has a tendancy to catch fire. Have you heard that Irish?

-Jason

[IrishEKU]

Jason,

The ammo carrier is a Fasvee, mentioned here: http://www.trackpads.com/portal/modu...owpage&pid=334

Pictured here:http://www.trackpads.com/portal/modu...&orderby=hitsD

The M-1 NBC systems have caught fire in the past, but that was due to electrical failure in the motors that run the fans to over pressurize the atmosphere. I belive TACOM found the fault with the older systems and wen't to a lighter weight blade design to reduce wear on the motors. As everything in the military has an operational life and should only be utilized for it's intended use. I don't know how many times I have seen them used as heaters or air conditioners by the crews :twisted: . Do I get a "Guilty as Charged?" LOL!

[Battery Steele]

That Paladin blowing caught my attention. My first thought was that the misfire might have been a breech lock failure.

A "Pop and No Kick" is affirmative, also it appeared to me that the crew compartment blew a split second before the flash at the muzzle. Just another theory till someone releases the official report on the incident.

A military enigma that that may never be solved or revealed.

[Hannibal]

Battery Steele, are you a Arty guy?

[kruser79]

I had only taken over my new maint team at A 1/16CAV for about a week. One of the tanks was returning from a TR mission for the Armor School, and it's NBC filter cans caught fire right in front of the bays. We did what we were supposed to do-help get the fire out, and check to see what would be needed in the way of repairs. Well, not even two weeks later, another one caught fire out at Yano Range. The bad thing was, it was loaded with ammo behind the doors, and AOB Lieutenants in the turret positions. This one was fairly high vis, what with the Fire Dept., The Hazmat folks, and garrison people involved.
What came out of all this was Ft. Knox asking the people from Garrett Research to do some training (plus a little look see to try and find the cause). I guess there were quite a few NBC fires fleet wide at the time.
The prevailing theory (and the cause in every one that I've been witness to) has been the failure of the Air Cycle Machine. It's a fairly delicate design because of it's intended function. It has an air bearing which allows it to spin at unbelievable speed. The problem with this design is that the air going through it has to be seriously clean. Any dirt, or foreign objects can throw it off of its axis causing it to fail. Once it fails, engine bleed air goes directly to the filters. I forget the exact numbers, but I think the charcoal ignites in the vicinity of 250 deg., and the bleed air is cooling (albeit slowly) from 950 deg. One of the main reasons that crews have said they had no time to react, it just lit up.
Learning these things caused me to be a tyrant in respect to the scheduled maintenance of the NBC System in every tank company I've supported. My guys hated tearing it apart to clean, inspect, and repair it, it isn't for the faint of heart. But the consequences are unthinkable.
The last two units I was assigned to hadn't been doing this portion of the scheduled services (too time consuming). I launched into, "We start doing it, NOW!" mode. Seeing some of these systems it was apparent that it had been a very long time since they were last done, and knowing that this was only begging for trouble made me breathe a sigh of relief that it hadn't happened yet, and that my boy's efforts would probably keep it from happening. I tend to think that a couple of hours worth of work is worth it when you're talking about folk's lives.

Ya know? There's reasons stuff's written in the TM's....